by Haereticus 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In our version of the QFR there is one passage that is worded somewhat "foggy". I would like to see the original text and all I am interested is the paragraph that deals with anal and oral sex and has porneia-related subheading. In Finnish version it is the last paragraph on page 29.
I would appreciate a quotation of the original text in English.
Mark
Great news this was stuck in my door just yesterday with a hand written note from my bs lady.
last paragraph page 29:
Fornication (Greek, por~nei'a) applies to illicit relations outside Scriptural marriage. It includes adultery, prostitution, and sex relations between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of the gentials of an individual to whom one in not married. A person who unrepentantly practices fornication does not belong in the Christian congregation.
Is that what you wanted...anyone need more?
lisa
So, does that mean anything is allowable INSIDE scriptural marriage?
This is new. The last i remember them saying was that oral/anal sex was porneia but not growns for divorce, a change from a brief period where divorce priveledges were granted. Someone high up either slipped up or recognized the contradiction created in calling it porneia but not then allowing divorce on the grounds of porneia.
In 1983 (W 3/15) that was notporneia:
Married
ChristiansHow about sexual activity between married couples within the marriage bond? It is not for the elders to pry into the intimate lives of married Christians. However, the Bible certainly enters into their lives. Those who would "keep walking by spirit" should not ignore the Scriptural indications of God?s thinking. And they will do well to cultivate a hatred for everything that is unclean before Jehovah, including what are clearly perverted sexual practices. Married couples should act in a way that will leave them with a clean conscience, as they give unimpeded attention to developing "the fruitage of the spirit."?Galatians 5:16, 22, 23; Ephesians 5:3-5.
What, though, if one mate wants or even demands to share with his or her partner in what is clearly a perverted sex practice? The above-presented facts show that porneia involves unlawful sexual conduct outside the marital arrangement. Thus, a mate?s enforcing perverted acts, such as oral or anal sex, within the marriage would not constitute a Scriptural basis for a divorce that would free either for remarriage. Even though a believing mate is distressed by the situation, yet that one?s endeavor to hold to Scriptural principles will result in a blessing from Jehovah. In such cases it may be helpful for the couple to discuss the problem frankly, bearing in mind especially that sexual relations should be honorable, wholesome, an expression of tenderlove. This certainly should exclude anything that might distress or harm one?s mate.?Ephesians 5:28-30; 1 Peter 3:1, 7.
As already stated, it is not for elders to "police" the private marital matters of couples in the congregation. However, if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is practicing or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond, that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation. Why?
Galatians 5:19-21 lists many vices that are not classed as porneia, and which could lead to one?s being disqualified from God?s Kingdom. Among them are "uncleanness" (Greek, akatharsia, signifying filthiness, depravity, lewdness) and "loose conduct" (Greek, aselgeia, signifying licentiousness, wantonness, shameless conduct). Like porneia, these vices, when they become gross, can be grounds for disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation, but not for obtaining a Scriptural divorce. A person who brazenly advocates shocking and repulsive sexual activities would be guilty of loose conduct. Of course, a person with that attitude might even sink to committing porneia; then there would be a basis for a Scriptural divorce. How concerned all devoted Christians should be to avoid and war against all such "works of the flesh"!?Galatians 5:24, 25.
All of Jehovah?s people, whether married or single, should shun every kind of immorality. They should give loyal support to all of Jehovah?s arrangements, including the institution of marriage. (Psalm 18:21-25) Those who are married should, as "one flesh," endeavor to honor Jehovah, cultivating true love and respect in their marriage. (Genesis 2:23, 24; Ephesians 5:33; Colossians 3:18, 19) In this way, as in other ways, they can show that they are "no part of the world"?a world that Satan has dragged into a mire of immorality and corruption and that is about to ?pass away with its desire.? Remembering that "he that does the will of God remains forever," all should strive to do God?s "will" in relation to His precious arrangement of marriage.?John 17:16; 1 John 2:17.
Shortly put, do what you want but don't tell.
why is oral sex perverted? I can understand the rationale for anal but not for oral
As I read it:
Fornication (Greek, por~nei'a) applies to illicit relations outside Scriptural marriage. It includes adultery, prostitution, and sex relations between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of the gentials of an individual to whom one is not married. A person who unrepentantly practices fornication does not belong in the Christian congregation.
The question was "Can a person be disfellowshipped from the Christian Congregation for engaging in uncleanness as he can be for fornication and loose conduct?"
The answer was "Yes" . Examples given were
"suppose an engaged couple indulged in passion arousing heavy petting on numerous occasions. The elders might take judicial action "
"A person who repeatedly makes sexually explicit telephone calls "
"Smoking cigarettes"
"Repeatedly viewing abhorrent sexually degrading pornography, {as distinct from soft porn which only gets a counselling from elders}
A lot is left to elders judgement. I guess different bodies will make different decisions
So are all sins with grounds for disfellowshipping also grounds for Witness approved divorce? Say, gluttony, or theft? Why?
Gary
Of course not, a wife cannot get a divorce for you getting fat or becoming a thief but they usually get a divorce if you do not believe anymore
They changed back and called it porneia ( but without explanaition, without grounds for divorse) in the 90's. I'm certain.
