by The wanderer 64 Replies latest jw friends
I knew that the material in the Revelation book was a huge pile of embarrassing shit long before I researched anything on the Internet, but it was the Internet that helped me realize I wasn't alone in leaving the Watchtower mentally. It's been therapy.
Shel
Shel
Internet that helped me realize I wasn't alone in leaving the Watchtower mentally
I like how you put that! I agree, I left the Watchtower physically, but the internet had a lot do with letting it go mentally. I found others I could relate to, that were going through the same thoughts and struggles I was. Also that "worldy" people ARE good people,and that I can make new friends.
I used to post as an apologist defending the WT. I got confronted with a lot of opposing views and had - first internally to myself - admit that in most of them there was substance. I began to write things despite I knew better. Then I went anonymous and could discuss my real thoughts and I had to see that I was mislead. So, the means of the Internet had big impact on me.
I would say that we left indirectly due to the internet.
Doubts - we had some, though we called them something else for a long time - confusion I suppose.
We left after reading Crisis of Conscience and ISoCF. These books confirmed our doubts, woke us up and let us accept that leaving was not a sin against God. But without the internet, we would never have known about these books. We knew Franz left in the early 80's - we knew nothing else about that. We were timid on the internet, and would not have ever visited a site like this one, or Randy's early on - in looking for articles and experiences that were fairly tame, we found about about his books and ordered them. The rest is history.
Without the internet we would still be in captivity.
Jeff
I haven't left yet, and the Internet won't be the deciding factor if I leave. Too much of what is on the Internet is wrong, stupid or senseless. An example would be many of the comments on Russell and the Great Pyramid. Some of the comments contain interesting and well-researched information. However, the Watch Tower's Great Pyramid adventure is usually taken out of historical context. It's forgotten that mainline and respected Christian journals endorsed the idea. Positive reviews of Seiss's pyramid book appeared in The Illustrated Christian Weekly, The Reformed Church Messenger, and many others. I wonder why it took so long to discard pyramidology. But I don't wonder why it was believed or even find it upsetting.
What does bother me is the endless hypocrisy, the poor scholarship, and the lack of adequate training for elders and ministerial servants. And comparing "theocratic" training to college is simply mindless. There is no comparison. If anything will finally get me out, it is the continued bad behavior of Elders. That the Governing Body tolerates wickedness in Elder-bodies is beyond shameful. And they do. They know they do. We know they do.
One brief example of a corrupt elder body: I was chairman of an appeal committee. Within five minutes it was apparent that one of the original committee had lied to the brother they'd disfellowshipped. We upheld the disfellowshipping. It was one of those times when removing a true wickedness was a good thing. But, we took the matter of the elder's lie up with the rest of the original committee. We pointed out to them that they had countenanced the lie by not challenging it when it was told. This person's excuse for the lie was that he wanted "him (the one appearing before them) to tell the truth." Huh? HUH? You think this is rare? Think again!
The so-called "temple organization" (anyone old enough to remember that expression?) is corrupt. Clean house, brothers, or lose faithful but hurting brothers and sisters.
I knew that the material in the Revelation book was a huge pile of embarrassing shit long before I researched anything on the Internet, but it was the Internet that helped me realize I wasn't alone in leaving the Watchtower mentally. It's been therapy.
When I was much younger than I am now "The Revelation Book" was the two-volume work Light. (Makes me a tad old, doesn't it?) Rutherford's Light still forms the basis for Jehovah's Witnesses apocalyptic theology. There are many, many revisions, but the approach was solidified by what Rutherford wrote back in 1930.
In Russell's day the Watch Tower's approach to prophetic speculation was fairly standard. It had it's roots in several major 17th through early 19th century works, and surprisingly most of them were not Adventist. When the movement fragmented after Russell's death Rutherford and P. S. L. Johnson used prophetic types as swords. To his credit, Rutherford was more of a gentleman than Johnson. (Sorry, you Johnshonites, but it IS true.) That aside, it was this that moved Watch Tower prophetic speculation from its roots in Mede, the two Newtons, and others into its present framework. Even that true weirdness titled "Finished Mystery" had roots in more mainstream and respected (traditional is probably a better word) prophetic exposition.
There ya' go. A bit of history, whether you want it or not.
Hi Old Goat,
You said:
It's forgotten that mainline and respected Christian journals endorsed the idea. Positive reviews of Seiss's pyramid book appeared in The Illustrated Christian Weekly, The Reformed Church Messenger, and many others. I wonder why it took so long to discard pyramidology. But I don't wonder why it was believed or even find it upsetting.
I agree with you, pyramidology was quite "mainline" at the time. In what way does that make it acceptable?
Hellfire and the trinity were also "mainline" does that make them acceptable?
The point of the Witness teaching is that God had chosen them and divested them of their "Babylonish" teachings.
Pyramidology was a core teaching and cannot just be brushed over as inconsequential. It was used as the basis for Russell's 1914 teaching.
Yes I can understand why it was believed. Jehovah God had nothing to do with their beliefs.
As you know, a Witness would be disfellowshipped today if s/he claimed belief in pyramidology.
yesidid
Pyramidology was a core teaching and cannot just be brushed over as inconsequential. It was used as the basis for Russell's 1914 teaching.
Actually, it was used to supplement the 1914 conclusion, not as its principal proof. The "Gentile Times" argument was the principal proof. Even that wasn't unique to Russell and Barbour. One can find it in Hatch, H. Grattan Guinness, and Elliott, and, though starting and ending at a different date, in Brown.
Pyramidology was subsidiary for Russell, not primary.
Was it right to teach it? No, of course not. Were Russell, Storrs, and Seiss worse than anyone else for doing it? Probably they were no more nonsensical than most. Should the Watch Tower have abandoned it sooner? Certainly. Only the worship of Russell kept it alive.
I'm not an apologist for pyrmidology or for Russell. My point is that these things have a historical context, and in that context they are less upsetting to me than they would otherwise be. For me the focus is on behaviour. Today's behaviour of elders and the governing body, to be precise. It's generally bad, untrained at least, and it hurts those who believe.
I am not going to go buy the Russell books on CDROM to confirm OLD GOAT is right or wrong. I only have the internet version of
what happened to learn from. That's part of the problem. The Proclaimers Book had the opportunity to present the information in a
clear understandable way. Same about 1975. The Governing Body chooses to hide it's past regrets. Even in the recent past,
doctrine that isn't repeated, they hope we forget. I haven't read any updates on the start of the 7th creative day sometime after Eve
was created. The GB abandoned the "We are a prophet" statements from the past, now saying they are not infallible, because they
need to be wrong once-in-a-while. What's the truth from "The Truth" about Beth Sarim? How about an open understanding about how
the NWT came about? Tell us what led to decisions about Bethel Layoffs, and how the Bethelites feel about the deal.
I am starting to see why people are so hard on the WTS on these threads. Stuff just gets to you.
The point of the Witness teaching is that God had chosen them and divested them of their "Babylonish" teachings.
Yes, that is the point. Even if claiming they are not prophets, the GB claims Jesus' guidance (used to be an angel) by saying he
appointed them over all his belongings. I expect that every change since 1919 would be correct. A DISCREET slave would never
run ahead with guesses saying they are God's promises, such as "the generation of 1914" and other predictions that might be wrong.
They would say, "Nobody knows the day or hour, and we are the same. We need further clarification, but it might be possible that
Jesus meant..." They might also just say, "We don' t know."
