More to the letter...

by Matt_fs 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Matt_fs

  My JW friend had wrote me a letter and i explained a little about it here:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/120896/1.ashx

  But in his letter he wrote some more and I was wondering what all you thought about it, and see what some of your comments were. I really appriciate all of your answers and comments to my posts! Heres what the last of his letter said:

  "Matt I have no doubt where I am in life or about being a Witness, many religions focus just on Jesus and almost nothing on God, they hide his name, remove it from the bible and try to make him obscure, Witness's teach about both Jesus and Jehovah. Jesus taught people about God, and taught his disciples to teach people about God, most of the bible teaches about God. Doesn't it make sense to do the same? You said Jesus is the door to God, well if a door is going to be useful you have to go through it, not just to it."

  Cheers

  Matt
• 

  ozziepost

  G'day Matt,

  a few rushed comments (sorry for that):

  most of the bible teaches about God

  I thought the NT was all about Jesus?

  You said Jesus is the door to God, well if a door is going to be useful you have to go through it, not just to it

  Not a good analogy IMO. However, there's so much in the NT to reject the dub teaching. We are "witnesses of Jesus" who "has been given all authority in heaven and on earth" - how much more authority is there?

  they hide his name

  Of course this is a 'furphy' - it's not a matter of hiding the name, but of recognising what it is, one of several names for God that is used in the Bible. Personally Jehovah works for me much of the time, but I don't say it's the only way. On a wider front, the Witnesses struggle to show that the name Jehovah was ever in the NT - just what was the name that Jesus used for his Father?

  Etc etc.

  Cheers, Ozzie
• 

  jwfacts

  I have no doubt where I am in life or about being a Witness

  This arrogant comment of his basically dismisses anyone elses opinion as wrong. People believe what they want to believe, and there is often little that you can do to change it. There really is no such thing as a JW friend as they will almost always put the Watchtower Society ahead of any friendship. You are lucky to leave before you have invested too much time building a life on false teachings and false friendships.

  In response to his statement about Jehovah, there has been a few recent threads showing that the word Jehovah never appeared in the New Testatment and the Watchtower Society dishonestly has included it to direct focus away from Jesus. There is detail about this at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/Jehovah.htm You can send his some of that information, though it does not appear that he cares about truth if it conflicts with what he wants to believe.
• 

  carla

  You could start with a study on the word 'jehovah'. Does he realize it wasn't even a word until a Catholic monk invented it in about 1270? That the wt has admitted that the pronunciation they use is not correct? So, why do they continue to say you must use the word jehovah? It isn't even God's name to begin with, just made up. There are many, many sites on the tetragrammaton and try reexamine.org or Freeminds for the wt literature. Has your friend ever read the entire New Testament? Has he compared it with other translations or even the wt's own KIT? If he did he would certainly come to a very different conclusion about Jesus than he has now.

  I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.
• 

  carla

  PS- you may want to check out some AuldSouls recent threads and look in the search section of this site for many of the issues you will come up against if you are trying to get him to think.
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Jesus taught people about God, and taught his disciples to teach people about God, most of the bible teaches about God. Doesn't it make sense to do the same?

  Dear Matt,

  Funny thing is, that the New World translation does not translate the Bible the way it was originally translated. Your friend may be shocked to find that when you check it out, the original Greek scriptures only mention God's name a couple times when it was a direct quote from the Hebrew scriptures. Every other place where you find Jehovah in the Greek scriptures, they (the JW's) have added it where it never was originally!! I was shocked when I first discovered this. The entire Greek scriptures, which is the other half of the Bible is talking about Jesus, and the Kingdom. However the first half of the Bible speaks of Jehovah and his dealings with the nation of Isreal. Funny how the Witnesses speak very little about Jesus compared to Jehovah. Yet, when you read the Greek scriptures, it is VERY clear he intended his son to have a whole lot more glory than the Witnesses want to give him!!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
• 

  cyberguy

  Matt,
  
  The problem with JW's isn't that they don't talk about God and Jesus, but it's the way they relegate Jesus to an inferior position relative to their "earthly organization" (JW-speak for the religious structure of the JW's, including their Pope-like "governing body" and hierarchy of religious management).
  
  If you reflect on some of the talks and prayers you've heard at the Kingdom Hall, you"ll probably recall how often this combination of "God and his organization" is brought to the fore, how it is continuously emphasized, lauded and praised. This is probably due to their fundamental teaching that Jesus gave them "all his belongings" which they claim are all his "earthly assets" circa 1919. Hence the constant rant about the "organization!" "How important for all "stick close" to the "organization," they say! ""Obey the Organizaion" if you want to please God."
  
  Moreover, your friend's comment about Jesus being a "door" to God really does not fit the inner beliefs of most JW's! Please ask your friend if it is possible for anyone to go through the "door," or must one also be associated with their "organization" for worship to be acceptable to God" Fundamentally, the JW's believe (although they won"t directly admit to it) that their "organization" is "the Way the Truth and the Life!" For JW's, Jesus is merely an old-fashioned "switchboard operator" to God in prayer and nothing more.
  
  Cyber
• 

  Ade

  Hi Matt,
  firstly i will say i will be elongating this letter for you later , but for now a simple point concerning the following;
  
  "well if a door is going to be useful you have to go through it, not just to it." FIRSTLY this is a derogatory statement concerning Jesus - for without Jesus you friend could NOT be saved ( is Jesus just a door , no he's the key as well ) Secondly if you cant find the door properly - because you wont acknowledge its importance , how can you get into the house ??
  
  Jesus has already been given all authority on earth and in heaven, To deny this is to Deny Jesus own words.Point this out and ask your friend if enough time is spent concentrating on Jesus christ during meetings or ask him to identify who catches credit in the prayers at kingdom halls ?? the FDS or Jesus christ ( you will notice all thats said in prayer is , we ask all this in Jesus name - amen.however they will thank the FDS for the food they receive.who is truly being exalted ??? men or Jesus?? ).After all if God Almighty saw fit to exalt Jesus to such a superior position, how can the Jw's claim he was / is just an angel.
  As stated earlier as well Je-Ho-Vah is not a real word ask your friend to trace back the origin of the name .
  it is simply a widely accepted translation with no evidence of correctness, a closer form would almost definatley be YAHWEH.the new testament states thats followers of Jesus would be NAMED christians, nowhere is it said Jehovah's Witnesses etc and their basis for taking the name is very weak and sunk in the depths of the old testament.
  
  Speak to you later my friend
  All the best
  Ade
• 

  greendawn

  The most central person in the New Testament which superceded the old Testament is Jesus Christ, and the JWs do not really accord much importance to Him but instead they overemphasize jehovah and the Old Testament.

  Note the Jews themselves do not use the name Jehovah since before Christ. It is an outdated name, a name based on the Hebrew language. And clearly the JWs do not accord to Jesus the importance the apostles did and who called him: Lord over all.
• 

  Ade

  Hi again Matt,
  your friend wrote;
  "Matt I have no doubt where I am in life or about being a Witness, many religions focus just on Jesus and almost nothing on God, they hide his name, remove it from the bible and try to make him obscure, Witness's teach about both Jesus and Jehovah. Jesus taught people about God, and taught his disciples to teach people about God, most of the bible teaches about God. Doesn't it make sense to do the same? You said Jesus is the door to God, well if a door is going to be useful you have to go through it, not just to it."
  
  There are a number of things to address here,
  
  1) Many religions focus on Just Jesus and almost nothing on God.
  Ask your friend how he knows this, has he read other religions material to test the truth ?? indeed is he allowed to read anything besides what the society provide ?? also ask him why the society as the sole channel of God advises members not to read the old literature, truth doesnt change, so, either what they taught then was a lie or what they teach now is a lie.
  
  2)Ask him if its possible to pursue God without being in an organized religion. If he says no , ask him to point this out from the bible??.
  
  3)Jesus did indeed teach about love and his father, and his disciples taught the same, they also taught us not to be led "hither and thither by the doctrines of men" ask him where his doctrine comes from, if he says the bible we can easily produce a long list of questions to show his doctrine does not relate to the bible but in fact is the doctrine of men.
  
  4) If indeed Jesus is just a door question your friend on this 2 Peter 2:1 has a very interesting translation in the NWT ;
  
  NWT "However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves."
  
  Virtually all other translations read in the place of "disown even the owner" - "disown even the Lord" - "Disown even the Master" Master is used in two basic senses 1) in authority and 2) as in Teacher .As one in Authority, master applies to slaveholder and to heads, which in biblical times included slaves and servants.Greek terms translates master are as follows despotes,kyrios,oikodespotes. Ask your friend why the Emphatic diaglott ( brought from the catholic church by the witnesses ) translates it as "sovereign Lord denying" - then the kingdom interlinear translation ( their next attempt at a translation ) translates the original tongue as "Master Denying" however in the english translation column it says the word "Owner" instead of "Master" or "Lord" .the word master is used here to show the effect of an animal licking the masters had etc.Has your friend truly given Jesus his rightful place.
  
  hope this helps
  all the very best
  Ade