The Holy Spirit (page 2)

Simon

Hi Seven, sorry to hear you're not too well
Hope you feel better soon

...So when a group of people do presume to speak for the H.S., what sort of responsibility do you suppose that places upon them? What do you think would be ample signs that such a group is indeed speaking for God?

waiting

What a loaded question Ben has asked!!! When a person, or group of persons, speak officially for Jehovah's holy spirit, and say they are speaking the Truth, and sometimes call themselves Prophets (depending on their view of present truth at the present time), then I guess they would have the weight and test that the Prophets in the Bible had.......and we all know what happened to them when their prophecies didn't come true.

Which leaves us, their followers, in a slight pickle, doesn't it? Maybe we should be reading our bibles more and praying for Jehovah's holy spirit to guide us also?

Ozzygal

I have never admitted this to anyone before, but in all my years as a JW I have never once felt the force of the Holy Spirit in my life. I don't understand why. I attend the meetings regularly, I do everything I am supposed to do to be a "good" christian and yet I NEVER feel good enough. I always feel like I am being judged by everyone around me. I feel like I am being watched and they're just waiting for me to stumble.

I just don't get it. Why don't I feel the Holy Spirit in my life?

RedhorseWoman

Ozzygal,

I, too, used to feel that major lack of the Holy Spirit, also. For years I just assumed that I wasn't doing enough or wasn't doing it right, so I would try harder, but I never felt that I measured up.

To my great surprise some years ago, I was in a personal situation that was totally overwhelming. I went outside the "proper" JW guidelines for appropriate prayer and just talked to Jehovah as I would a friend....telling Him my problems and specifically asking for what I needed (which, I can tell you, was NOT improvement of my field service skills). I got the answer and the closeness I had never been able to achieve when following all the rules.

To me now my relationship with Jehovah has become very much a personal thing, and I no longer worry about the Society's rules.

Scorpion

Hi Frenchy,

I will quote the Watchtower on this.

The Bible should be our primary textbook for study. WT 4/15/1971 p.230

I believe Gods spirit directs our understanding of the bible.

As Jehovah's Witnesses we should ask for such guidance. The organization has helped me to see things in a new light that I was missing without the help of the Watchtower and its publications.

The Watchtower 4/1/1986 says: Association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the teachings of the Bible, including scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

The 1983 YEARBOOK page 21 states that an individual must have The Watchtower to understand the Bible.

The Watchtower has helped me with understanding the Bible. This is not to say that God can show us things from the Bible without the help of the Watchtower. Jehovah does not need us, we need him.

overthehillgrandma

then why cant we use any bible?

waiting

Dear overthehill, (and probably not any overthehill more than me)

We can use any Bible, but different Bibles read slightly differently from each other. The Society quotes different Bibles, so I'm sure it's OK to use them, right?

However, it really might be interesting when there is a difference in wording to do research on why there is a difference.

Such as reading what the Society says about the translating of the classical Greek language and what professors of the classical Greek language say. We know that Brother Franz had, to my recollection, several years study - at the most - of everyday Greek in his almost 3 yrs of college. And to my recollection, he was the only brother up at Bethel at the time of the translating of the New World Translation that had any knowledge of the common Greek language, and no schooling in the Classical Greek language. Brother Franz was self-taught in the Hebrew language, which is a remarkable accomplishment.

There are many language scholars with extensive knowlege about Greek and Hebrew, that's why, I guess, the wording is different in translations.

I found that the New International Version of the Bible is understandable and seems quite compatible with the New World Translation. So is the Living Bible published by the Society.

Good reading and may Jehovah's spirit guide us all.

Frenchy

I apologize for taking so long in getting back to this topic. Your reply is duly noted, SC.

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The 1983 YEARBOOK page 21 states that an individual must have The Watchtower to understand the Bible.

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So the yearbook says this, so what? How do you view this statement? Is there some Scriptural basis for this? Is there some verse in the Bible that says we need some outside source to understand God's Word? Is there some Biblical proof that the WTS is empowered and authorized to interpret Scripture? What makes the 1983 Yearbook statement anything but an opinion? Is it inspired?

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The Bible should be our primary textbook for study. WT 4/15/1971 p.230
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Is this really the case? Is the Bible our PRIMARY text book? OR rather, is the Bible used only in connection with the STUDY AIDS that we are using at any given time? When was the last time we had a meeting when the Bible alone was used and read out of? THAT would be what I would call PRIMARY. Anyway, doesn't the 1983 yearbook say, in essence, the Bible is useless to us without the Watchtower? "...must have the Watchtower to understand..." Also, how many other articles really emphasize the Bible rather than the FDS?

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I believe Gods spirit directs our understanding of the bible.
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How can that be inasmuch as we are told to avoid 'independent thinking'? How can God's spirit direct your understanding when your understanding is clearly printed out for you in the Watchtower? What is there left to pray for? How can you ask for understanding when you are not allowed any understanding but that which is printed out for you?

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The Watchtower 4/1/1986 says: Association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the teachings of the Bible, including scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.
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"...the teachings of the Bible..." Now there is an interesting phrase. I have heard that phrase used in connection with the belief of the trinity, hellfire, immortality of the soul, praying to saints, using the cross in worship, as well as in the case of refuting these doctrines. So exactly what are "the teachings of the Bible?" The answer to that question depends on your religious persuasion. In other words, 'the teachings of the Bible' are what your religion tells you they are.

Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, SC, believe me it is not. It's just that I've heard all of this stuff thrown at me so many times over the decades that I have been a witness that I'm finally choking on it. It makes no sense to me. I don't have the answers but then I don't pretend to either.

If someone convinces me that they are God's agent, I will follow them to the gates of hell. But they had better have some strong proof of their commission. Because like the song says, "I can make mistakes myself just fine"

Please let me know how you feel about what I have said here.

Ozzygal

Hi Redhorsewoman,
I am so sick of trying, trying, trying. I wish I had felt something like you say you have. I am even beginning to doubt the existence of Jehovah,... let alone the HS. I look around my congregation and see only a handful of people that seem sincere in there spirituality. There is so much gossip and hypocracy among many who are supposed to be more spiritual or christian than me.

Our "spirituality" is measured by how many mags we give out, how many bible studies we have, how many hours of field service we do, how many meetings we've missed. It's all in the numbers. Who's got the biggest stack of magazines to pick up from the book counter. Ugh!! It's all just one big showy display.....it sickens me.

The Holy Spirit

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