Agnostic or Athiest--which makes more sense?

by whyizit 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    Semantics.

    I would define the agnostic position not as "I am not sure.....maybe there is a God", but as "It is not possible to know if there is a God".

    Link
  • lonelysheep
    lonelysheep
    and has accepted that there is no God and he doesn't lose any sleep over it and lives life without fear or apprehension of "what if".

    That is my way of thinking, also.

    Link
  • skeptic2
    skeptic2

    God cannot be falsified, so all atheists must be agnostics. But in everyday language the definition of these terms has become confused.

    Link
  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Agnosticism is a very weak position and one I find difficult to respect.

    Nic'

    THAT is a bit harsh...

    I label myself 'agnostic' for the simple lack of another term. I simply cannot prove the existance or non-existence of a god or creator, can you ?

    For me, the honest answer is...I don't know.

    I hope you'll still respect me in the morning.

    Rabbit

    Link
  • Nowman
    Nowman

    I am an agnostic. I do not have to have all my questions answered. I need to see it to believe it, I guess. The one thing that makes me think that God is possible, is child birth and the whole process. How could that have developed by chance? Of course there are other things, but this always gets me wondering....Being an agnostic works for me, because I like to be open minded and make my own conclusions whether it be privately to myself or verbally while in a discussion.

    Nikki

    Link
  • whyizit
    whyizit

    It's lovely to be called gullible. By the way, how is it that you came to be on this forum? It couldn't be that you were (gasp) in a mind control group, could it? I mean, surely YOU aren't that gullible, are you? That just can't be! (But then again, I am kind of gullible. Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?)

    I believe that the Bible makes way more sense than evolution, and Kent Hovind's creation seminar definitely got the wheels turning in that direction. I never heard any cases for creation before him. I did not simply stop there. That was only the beginning. More and more evidence keeps piling up on the side of a creator, rather than a cosmic accident.

    Since having found faith in God, you can believe it or not, but my experience has been a very personal one. It is amazing how He is with me and I know He exists. I can't prove it, but I can only tell how my life has changed. Heck, I don't even have to tell people. They actually ask me what is up. They notice the difference. I look the same. I'm not a hamster on a wheel. I don't beat on doors and push it on others. I don't spit Scriptures out in my every breath. I'm not charismatic in the least. I don't pressure people that they should believe as I do. I just live what I believe. I can only testify as to what has happened in my life.

    Link
  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    whyisit

    Since having found faith in God, you can believe it or not, but my experience has been a very personal one. It is amazing how He is with me and I know He exists. I can't prove it, but I can only tell how my life has changed. Heck, I don't even have to tell people. They actually ask me what is up. They notice the difference. I look the same. I'm not a hamster on a wheel. I don't beat on doors and push it on others. I don't spit Scriptures out in my every breath. I'm not charismatic in the least. I don't pressure people that they should believe as I do. I just live what I believe. I can only testify as to what has happened in my life.

    First, I am not mocking you at all in the following edited post. Each of our individual experiences affect us, well...individually. I can take your above words and apply it to my agnostic life in this way:

    Since having found faith in Godthe nature of humanity, you can believe it or not, but my experience has been a very personal one. It is amazing how He ishumanity is with me and I know Hehumanity exists. I can't prove it, but I can only tell how my life has changed. Heck, I don't even have to tell people. They actually ask me what is up. They notice the difference. I look the same. I'm not a hamster on a wheel. I don't beat on doors and push it on others. I don't spit Scriptures out in my every breath. I'm not charismatic in the least. I don't pressure people that they should believe as I do. I just live what I believe. I can only testify as to what has happened in my life.

    One person that has noticed all the very positive changes in my life -- is a JW daughter that has stopped shunning me. She's asked me many times "Why, how ...have you changed so much for the better?" She knows I'm inactive, but, not DF. I would love to tell her what I really believe, but, that would be too much of a shock to her system.

    I am a much happier and confident man than I ever was as a "God fearing man" and a "WTS fearing man". Since I now have no 'hope or faith' in some kind of afterlife and since I'm 52 years old...I'm going to concentrate on making the rest of this life happy for me -- on my terms, as well as helping the people around me.

    I just don't know... if there is or isn't a higher power and I don't care what "He or She" wants of me, if I turn out to be wrong about that. All supposedly inspired "scripture" portrays the "gods" as fickle, jealous, murderous task masters who do what ever they want...when they want. If there is a god/goddess and they want my ass in a sling...because, of a lack of faith or misunderstanding on my part...oh well ! They will punish my imperfect ass if they wanna.

    I'm not too worried.

    Rabbit

    Link
  • AlanF
    AlanF

    whyisit said:

    : It's lovely to be called gullible.

    While I was not completely sure at first, I think that at this point, you've demonstrated it. Your failure to mention Hovind's ridiculous teaching about Tyrannosaurs terrorizing Europe until recently proves it.

    : By the way, how is it that you came to be on this forum?

    Well, I got on Usenet back in 1991, and have been a significant contributor to many JW-oriented forums since then. But I'm sure you're uninterested in my overall posting history. But in case you really want to know how long I've been online, type my name at Google.

    : It couldn't be that you were (gasp) in a mind control group, could it? I mean, surely YOU aren't that gullible, are you? That just can't be! (But then again, I am kind of gullible. Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?)

    Having been raised in the JW cult since infancy, I can hardly claim to have been influenced to join it as an adult, can I? Rather in contrast to you, who by your own admission were raised with at least a modicum of sense, but you threw it away upon being taken in by one of the best Christian charlatans of the late 20th century. I first had misgivings about the JWs shortly after I was baptized due to peer pressure in 1967, when a few months after that regrettable event the WTS came out with its ridiculous doctrine that organ transplants are against the laws of God. It was downhill, by fits and starts, from there on. I finally had the sense to quit at age 27 and go to college, and learn something useful.

    : I believe that the Bible makes way more sense than evolution,

    You can believe in the tooth fairy, for all I care. But if you want to argue about the evidence, then you're in deep doo doo, on both counts.

    : and Kent Hovind's creation seminar definitely got the wheels turning in that direction.

    How sad.

    : I never heard any cases for creation before him.

    Nothing like a completely naive newbie, eh? Grist for the YEC mill.

    : I did not simply stop there. That was only the beginning.

    I wouldn't brag, if I were you.

    : More and more evidence keeps piling up on the side of a creator, rather than a cosmic accident.

    Yeah. LOL! Like "Intelligent Design" I suspect you'll claim. I note that you're just a bit too politically astute to mention your YECism on this board. You'll get your head handed to you, as I'm sure you know.

    : Since having found faith in God, you can believe it or not, but my experience has been a very personal one.

    Right. I suppose one of your most amazing experiences was that someone like Jimmy Swaggart whacked you on the head and you fell down, knowing Jesus when you got up. Am I wrong?

    : It is amazing how He is with me and I know He exists.

    JWs say the same thing. Ditto in spades for "anointed" JWs. Do you accept their claims? Of course not. Why not? Why are their claimed supernatural or semi-supernatural experiences of any less value than yours?

    : I can't prove it, but I can only tell how my life has changed.

    I've heard exactly the same thing from a variety of Christians. The JWs tout this very thing as reason that they have The Truth. Truth be told, it's not the Christianity that makes a difference. It's the fact that a person has managed to find a focus -- any focus -- as opposed to drifting without apparent purpose in life. But that's pretty well descriptive of how all religions affect people when they first become true believers.

    : Heck, I don't even have to tell people. They actually ask me what is up. They notice the difference. I look the same.

    Geez. And here I thought that newbie fundies immediately grew horns.

    : I'm not a hamster on a wheel. I don't beat on doors and push it on others. I don't spit Scriptures out in my every breath. I'm not charismatic in the least. I don't pressure people that they should believe as I do. I just live what I believe.

    That's good. And for that I admire you.

    : I can only testify as to what has happened in my life.

    Fine. But when you come on a public forum and make claims, you can expect that your claims will be challenged.

    Let me ask you another question: Do you really believe that Noah's Flood destroyed the entire earth a few thousand years ago, leaving the entire fossil record encased in sedimentary rocks in its wake? I.e., do you subscribe to the full blown young-earth creationism as espoused by Kent Hovind, the ICR and "Answers in Genesis"?

    AlanF

    Link
  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    What does a dyslexic, agnostic insomniac do?

    (Scroll down for answer)

    Lies awake at night contemplating whether or not there is a dog.

    Link
  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    Here some interesting quotes on the subject:

  • "People will then often say, 'But surely it's better to remain an Agnostic just in case?' This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I've been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would choose not to worship him anyway.)"
    • Douglas Adams, interview with The American Atheist (in The Salmon of Doubt)

    • "It is often said, mainly by the 'no-contests', that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
    — Richard Dawkins

Link

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit