by JW_Researcher 21 Replies latest watchtower bible
Do you agree with this statement?
"Leaders (called elders) of a given congregation are selected from within and there is routine and frequent turnover."
From: Stark, Rodney & Iannaccone, Laurence. (1997). “Why the Jehovah’s Witnesses Grow so Rapidly: A Theoretical application.” Journal of Contemporary Religion. 12:p.133-157
I've been in a number of congregations and I wouldn't say elder turnover was "routine" or even "frequent."
I'm interested in your thoughts on this.
Please and thank you.
NO, The statement is NOT true.
Elders tend to stick like s**t, there are infrequent changes, death and change of abode are the most reasons for elders departing. You do get elder families, where 2 - 5 elders are all related.
fokyc
The JWs are no longer growing rapidly as people realise that they are a destructive cult. As for elders chosen from within that used to happen in Russell's time but Rutherford soon put a stop to that. There is certainly no democratic tradition or culture in the JWs.
I believe that the positions used to change at one time, and elders used to take turns, but they were the same elders. In my kh, the current po has been in that position since 1994, and the one before him had been po since 1985. The other positions had changed more in my 20+ years, but not much, so no, I don't agree with that statement.
..NO..There is routine,lots and lots of routine..Not much turn over,very little in fact..JW`s are not a fast growing Cult..They are stagnent,losing members in many cases..Jehovah`s Witness membership will continue to shrink in many countrys around the world...OUTLAW
Here we had elders who owned businesses that stuck like flies to shit and we had out of the faction elders appointed who had brief careers as elders an fit in the "routine and frequent turnover" class for sure.
Here it'd be true.
We have a very tight labor market here and have for the last 20 years. The local elders who own businesses have a ready and willing cheap labor supply and some of those elders are very materially prosperous. One I'm quite well acquainted with has been quietly buying rental houses for years as a passive income retirement plan.
More than one rather visible prominent businesses here is owned by a Witness elder, and lovingly staffed with willing Jehovah's Witness employees.
If you ever wonder why the Witnesses promote manual labor, only basic education, and are advised to aspire to poverty, just look at the number of elder owned businesses staffed with minimun educated, hard working, low paid Witness people.
Here is the entire paragraph:
"Whatever the doctrinal basis of authority, an important additional source of legitimacy is the extent to which the rank-and-file feel enfranchised—believe that they have some impact on the decisions. Because the Witnesses depend upon lay clergy and leaders (as do the Mormons), the usual model of authority based on a distinction between clergy and laity does not apply. In an important sense, everyone is a lay member and, in another sense, everyone belongs among the clergy. Leaders (called elders) of a given congregation are selected from within and there is routine and frequent turnover. Given that the average size of congregations is kept small and the number of leadership roles is relatively large, not only are many members active leaders, many more have served as leaders and many more soon will. Moreover, all members serve as clergy to the world. This has several interesting consequences. For one, Witness meetings resemble seminars or professional meetings far more than they do religious services. Things are discussed and everyone is expected to take part. For example, because members are missionaries to the world, they must prepare themselves to present the correct theological interpretation of the latest events. Therefore, one night each week, active Witnesses gather at church for “theocratic ministry school” where they hone their missionary skills by practicing on one another. Typically, a number of members will give brief talks and others will demonstrate how to conduct home Bible study sessions with potential converts. After several years of this, even rather shy and inarticulate converts (or teenage children of members) become surprisingly skillful" (pp. 146-147).
This looks very much like the etic view of an outsider who does not fully understand or represent the emic experience of those who constitute the group under investigation. The impression he gives is that one can join with an expectation of eventually becoming an elder at least for a while because of the frequent turnover in leadership positions. Maybe in some places there is high turnover, but like others that was not my experience and I doubt it is the general situation. The general discussion in this paragraph glosses over the real laity-clergy distinction that exists in congregations between elders/POs/and higher ups and with the "rank-and-file" (a term he uses). Note, for instance, his silence about gender roles and how women often feel especially disenfranchised in decision making. Having parts in the TMS, commenting, handling microphones, etc. do not have "some impact on the decisions" and these roles in the R&F do not erase the otherwise stark distinctions between those who can make decisions and those who can not.
Didn`t the elders have a rotation system at one time? I can remember them changing around, i thought it was to stop anyone of them getting too much power in their position,
This looks very much like the etic view of an outsider who does not fully understand or represent the emic experience of those who constitute the group under investigation. The impression he gives is that one can join with an expectation of eventually becoming an elder at least for a while because of the frequent turnover in leadership positions.
There are a number of other "slightly off" observations that mark the researchers as outsiders.
It is in the support of a theory they posited in an earlier article that the leadership question emerges.
This study is the researchers applying their earlier theory to the JWs.
No. The elders stayed in that position for a very long time! Only if they did something that the others thought was setting a poor example were they asked to step down.
Juni
