ALL current JWs: Please give feedback here or by PM

by AuldSoul 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  willowmoon

  What Skyking said is the response I also received.

  When I continued to press for answers on a local level, the further explanation was that passage of time is not always specifically detailed in the Bible... that the ones in the referenced scriptures did study and learn and prove their faithfulness, but the amount of time it took was not detailed (sort of reminded me of hitting fast forward, lol). And that the ones doing the baptizing were special appointees of Jesus and Jehovah, therefore qualified to make the decision on whether one was "ready" for baptism. So that makes the shepherds of the WTS the ones who, in modern day, determine one's "readiness" and "qualification" for baptism.

  Please note that this is not necessarily my opinion or interpretation ... it's how it was explained to me when I asked for help researching and understanding the same scriptures you've presented. I too, would like to hear an honest Scriptural explanation from a sincere active Witness.

  Willow
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  IronClaw

  Just a side point on baptism. The WTS has written in many a WT and publication that Jesus is the "Model" to follow. So my question would be, Why do they allow children to get baptised? Most kids at a tender age of 6,8 or even 10 yrs old have NO idea of what they are getting into. Why in most states you cannot make any major decisions for yourself, you need parental permission. Is not marriage a major decision? Getting a drivers license? or buying liquor? Now if any youngster who ever walked the face of this planet was ever " ready " for baptism it was Jesus. How many 6,7 or 12 yr olds do you know of that can talk to Rabbi's or Priests as Jesus did at that tender age. Yet how old was he when he got baptised??? I do not recall in the scriptures any children getting baptised. I could be wrong though.

  Just my 2 cents, The Claw.
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  AuldSoul

  Willowmoon,

  Can I get a copy of that letter? Whoever wrote it outrightly LIED, big time.

  willowmoon: that the ones in the referenced scriptures did study and learn and prove their faithfulness, but the amount of time it took was not detailed

  Acts 2:41
  Therefore those who embraced his word heartily were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added.

  Acts 8:36
  Now as they were going over the road, they came to a certain body of water, and the eunuch said: "Look! A body of water; what prevents me from getting baptized?"

  Acts 10:44
  While Peter was yet speaking about these matters (i.e. less than 200 Greek words) the holy spirit fell upon all those hearing the word.

  Acts 16:13
  And on the sabbath day we went forth outside the gate beside a river, where we were thinking there was a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women that had assembled. (Lydia was baptized on the sabbath day)

  Acts 16:30-34 And he brought them outside and said: "Sirs, what must I do to get saved?" They said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household." And they spoke the word of Jehovah to him together with all those in his house. And he took them along in that hour of the night and bathed their stripes; and, one and all, he and his were baptized without delay. And he brought them into his house and set a table before them, and he rejoiced greatly with all his household now that he had believed God.

  In each of the instances I cited, the timing of events is specifically stated. Whoever wrote that to you should be ashamed of themselves. They very well may have studied and learned and proved their faithfulness, but they did so AFTER being baptized, not as a prerequisite condition for baptism.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  willowmoon

  Dear AuldSoul, I have discussed the time-line points you highlighted above with elders, c.o.'s, JWs in good standing, and others and simply was stating the explanations I was given. (I have the same phrases highlighted in my personal discussion notes, lol) I never said I understand or agree with that explanations offered. I repeat::

  Please note that this is not necessarily my opinion or interpretation ... it's how it was explained to me when I asked for help researching and understanding the same scriptures you've presented. I too, would like to hear an honest Scriptural explanation from a sincere active Witness.

  If a knowledgeable, active JW here submits a clarification of the points in question, I would gladly listen.

  Sorry, no I will not share the letter. It was written to me personally, so out of respect for the writer I will not release the letter for the sake of a public argument. Elders and others who know me know that I will do what I believe is directed by Jehovah and the Bible and that I will not blindly follow the words or thoughts of men who may themselves be mislead or misinformed, or not communicating information in a way that I grasp.

  I've learned to take these matters directly to Elders or knowledgeable JWs, or in writing to the WTS. It's possible that if you wrote to the WTS they would respond in writing to you also.

  I didn't join this discussion to have it become an argument or accuse anyone or the organization, but did so with honest hopes that there might be clarification of the points you brought up, which I believe many others do question also. Since the discussion isn't really going anywhere, I'll just bow out now.

  Willow
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  AuldSoul

  Willow: It's possible that if you wrote to the WTS they would respond in writing to you also.

  I wasn't intending to argue with you, I just wanted to clarify for others reading the thread that you were told something that is blatantly untrue, by way of explanation, lest they (without researching the point) believe that there was ANY merit to the explanation you were given.

  It is not possible they would respond to me in writing since I have formally disassociated myself from their man-made, deceitful religion. They responded to me on the issue of their 10-year associate membership to the UN Department of Public Information. They blamed me for finding out, saying that I was looking for something to stumble over, and rather strongly indicated that I was only troubled by it due to the influence of Satan.

  Not long afterward I began to actively examine whether there were other things to "stumble over", since anyone who gives a cause for stumbling WILL NOT enjoy the judgment to come.

  Now the organization won't speak to me anymore. They only respond directly to my elder body. Like a six-year-old giving someone the "silent treatment." They are petulant children wielding power over infants, possessed of an overweening perception of their own importance. They think MUCH more of themselves than it is necessary for them to think.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  willowmoon

  Ok, AuldSoul, I understand.

  Yeah, I'd say dialogue with them on your part wouldn't be too productive under the circumstances I was told that in most cases they do generally respond to correspondence through the c.o. or elders, guess my timing or approach hit at the right time or something, who knows.

  Thank you for appreciating why I wouldn't share that letter with you or anyone else. I don't think it would help in this discussion anyway, since what it said was posted. Hopefully the discussion can continue and be informative .... let's see if anyone else cares to contribute!

  Peacefully,

  Willow
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  V

  This is the pat answer from the WTS (emphasis mine):

  Watchtower 2002 8/1 p. 15 par. 6 Stirred by "the Magnificent Things of God"

  After the crowd heard Peter’s explanation, many of them were moved to action. They "embraced his word heartily" and "were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added." (Acts 2:41) As natural Jews and Jewish proselytes, they already had a basic knowledge of the Scriptures.That, coupled with faith in what they learned from Peter, provided the basis for them to be baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." (Matthew 28:19) After their baptism "they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles." At the same time, they began sharing their newfound faith with others. Indeed, "day after day they were in constant attendance at the temple with one accord, . . . praising God and finding favor with all the people." As a result of this witnessing activity, "Jehovah continued to join to them daily those being saved." (Acts 2:42, 46, 47) Christian congregations sprang up in many of the lands where these new believers lived. No doubt this increase was, at least in part, due to their zealous efforts to preach the "good news" when they returned home.—Colossians 1:23.

  But this could be compared to witnessing to anyone of Christain or Jewish background today.

  I believe your reasoning is air tight.
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  AuldSoul

  Back to the top for input from any newly arrived current JWs. I really want this thing ripped apart, if it can be done.

  V, I had thought of your point, but had not yet written it out (or even figured out a good way to verbalize it). Thank you for that contribution. To rephrase your point and replace the first line of my argument:

  Acts 2 shows 3,000 Jews baptized in one day, which would be similar to baptizing 3,000 Jews or self-proclaimed Christians today on the same day they were met by JWs.

  I think that is a very important point.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  crazyblondeb

  You could always take your question here, and see what they lie say!!

  http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/
• 

  proplog2

  Auld Soul:

  Good question. Let me research it and I'll get back to you. NOT !!!!!

  As you know JW's get cornered and promise to come back with an answer. If the answer can't be found in a Watchtower they just will never come back. They won't even write the Watchtower for an explanation because they are afraid of being marked.

  There is no knock out punch. The points have to be added up after each round.