The Tragedy of Fundamentalism (WARNING to all Pharisees! LARGE PRINT!)

by Geronimo 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Geronimo

  So many of the former JWs here have embraced a religion that differs little from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Worse yet, that fact reveals the basic wiring flaws of many fundies and evangelicals who post here.

  First off, they embrace an even nastier god. The fundie version of Jehovah is a much worse SOB than the JW version. At least the JW version will only annihilate the "wicked" (whatever the hell that means) and not throw them into the Lake of Fire, Hellfire, where they will be "tormented day and night forever and ever." (Revelation) The fundie Jehovah is a real nasty bastid.
  
  Second, they embrace the same "us versus them" mentality. This is a common trait of memes, of mental "viruses." They engender murders, cruelty, savagery, injustice, and all manner of evil. I advise the fundies here to brush up on their church history, and make sure they read a neutral account, not some sanitized version by fundies of one stripe or another. "You shall know them BY THEIR FRUITS" and the fruit most noticeably born by fundyism is hate and violence and murder. The world will go up in flames because of this mentality. Yet, infected minds welcome this because they are infected and unable to see their "truth" is not absolute. There will be no "new heavens and new earth in which dwelleth righteousness" but only a dead radioactive wasteland.
  
  These pitiful "born again"creatures are still frightened of the world and the universe and still feel ill at ease in the world, just as they did when they were JWs. They're misfits and misanthropes just as the JWs are. Both fundies and JWs are anxious for "the end of the world." These folks generally fail to excel in the world due to their mediocrity and lack of coping skills, so they opt for an anti-world religion and wait for the "sweet by and by when they die." Or the end of the world. Tragic.
  
  Unlike the JWs, most fundies want to inflict their religion on you in the form of legislation. They pick out gays or any person they consider "perverse" or "sinful" or "wicked" and tell that person that they're depraved and evil and fit only for hell. They tell folks that they're so wicked that only by having his own Son tortured and murdered can God's Wrath be appeased! Having lower than average IQ scores and education, the fundiots are unable to rise above their culture and get some perspective.
  
  Most fundies here are every bit as paranoid about science as are they were when they were JWs. Science has been beating the shiite out of the Bible for hundreds of years but these folks cannot get a clue and continue to try to force science into the primitive worldviews of the Bible writers. This is both tragic and pathetic.
  
  How very sad that the fundies here exchanged tweedledum for tweedledee. G
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Most fundies here are every bit as paranoid...

  But they are not as "paranoid" and as intolerant as you!

  The world will go up in flames because of this mentality. Yet, infected minds welcome this because they are infected and unable to see their "truth" is not absolute. There will be no "new heavens and new earth in which dwelleth righteousness" but only a dead radioactive wasteland.

  These folks generally fail to excel in the world due to their mediocrity and lack of coping skills,

  You must mean failures like President Bush. When you get to be president you can say he failed to excel. By the tone of this post you're the one without "coping skills" D Dog
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  While I am not sure that all the fundamentalists feel and think as you describe them,
  I am confident, for the moment, that I do not want ANY religious organization
  misleading me. I'm not sure what the truth is, but if God is love and forgiveness, he
  will understand those who don't go to church / temple / kingdom hall / whatever
  and he will forgive them.
• 

  ithinkisee

  It's the "Jesus is God" thing that really gets to me.

  The other thing that gets me is the blanket labeling that scientists are out to "destroy the bible". Many scientists, archeaologists, and historians would LOVE to believe the Bible. In fact, getting into their particular field of expertise was quite often because they wanted to research that stuff.

  Unfortunately, the deeper you research the more you realize the way things are portrayed by the religions are not as "concrete" as they would like you to believe. Think of your JW exit but magnify it 100 times and roll some world powers, crusades, political upheaval, and emperors into it (JWs never had any power or influence that was THAT grand). You have a farce on a grand scale.

  So when a scientist rolls their eyes at a misguided fundie comment it is not because they necessarily have a vendetta against the bible - many times it is because they know that person is making a comment based on misinformation.

  (That being said, there are some scientists that DO have a vendetta. I'm simply saying I am frustrated with the blanket label of scientists being anti-religion.)

  Of course, then there is the age-old problem that a beautiful religious story is always inherently better on the psyche of most people than simply saying that we die and then nothing happens. This has always been the case, and unfortunately, will probably continue to be the case for a few hundred more years. (My uneducated guess only of course)

  -ithinkisee
• 

  Geronimo

  It's the "Jesus is God" thing that really gets to me.

  The other thing that gets me is the blanket labeling that scientists are out to "destroy the bible". Many scientists, archeaologists, and historians would LOVE to believe the Bible. In fact, getting into their particular field of expertise was quite often because they wanted to research that stuff.

  Unfortunately, the deeper you research the more you realize the way things are portrayed by the religions are not as "concrete" as they would like you to believe. Think of your JW exit but magnify it 100 times and roll some world powers, crusades, political upheaval, and emperors into it (JWs never had any power or influence that was THAT grand). You have a farce on a grand scale.

  So when a scientist rolls their eyes at a misguided fundie comment it is not because they necessarily have a vendetta against the bible - many times it is because they know that person is making a comment based on misinformation.

  (That being said, there are some scientists that DO have a vendetta. I'm simply saying I am frustrated with the blanket label of scientists being anti-religion.)

  Of course, then there is the age-old problem that a beautiful religious story is always inherently better on the psyche of most people than simply saying that we die and then nothing happens. This has always been the case, and unfortunately, will probably continue to be the case for a few hundred more years. (My uneducated guess only of course)

  -ithinkisee

  Dear IthinkIsee
  
  First off, I think your icon is a scream!!! An ape with a bra. That's not something one sees everyday.
  
  Yes, most scientists in various disciplines are not out to destory the Bible. A good friend of mine who is a senior researcher for Dow Chemical hardly knows anything about the Bible except the Christmas story and the Flood. And yes, you hit the nail directly on the head by saying many scientists would LIKE to believe the Bible. They're as human as the rest of us and have the same needs for certainty and hope and meaning. Some of course, as you said, do have an axe to grind against the Bible.
  
  I like your insight into a beautiful religious story having much greater appeal than a reductionist argument based solely upon biochemistry. Perhaps that is the "Achilles Hell" of science: reductionism. Reducing everyhting to it's simplst constituent parts is great science, but it can't speak to the deepest of human needs. Even if the fundamentalist religions go the way of the dinosaur, the human spirit will still express it's transcendent needs via poetry and other forms of art. Science, after all, cannot tell us if there is a "God" or not. So science will always leave an emptiness and hunger for spiritual certainties.
  
  I have often pondered the survival value of religion from a Darwinian perspective and come up with nothing. I can see no survival value to it. On the contrary, believing that one is eteranl would tend to make a human more likely to engage in behaviors that are not conducive to long life. So, I'm at a loss as to how to explain the universal human need for religion in an evolutionary context. G
• 

  Geronimo

  While I am not sure that all the fundamentalists feel and think as you describe them,
  I am confident, for the moment, that I do not want ANY religious organization
  misleading me. I'm not sure what the truth is, but if God is love and forgiveness, he
  will understand those who don't go to church / temple / kingdom hall / whatever
  and he will forgive them.

  Hello OnTheWayOut
  
  Yes, I'm painting my picture in very broad strokes, based on my own finite experience. For every rule or generalization there are exceptions. Yet it is the exception that proves the rule. You're correct that you do not need a Herd Mentality ot tell you what to think and how to act. I couldn't be in greater harmony with you on this issue. I'm surprised that any former JWs latched onto the same old whore in a different dress! G
• 

  daystar

  I'm not going to address the rest of your post. It seems a bit too generalized, though I get your point. This, however:

  So many of the former JWs here have embraced a religion that differs little from the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  This is common. Even people who leave Christianity entirely seem to retain the same value system, just without the authorizing God. They call it secular humanism. Christianity without God is all it amounts to.
• 

  Geronimo

  Most fundies here are every bit as paranoid...

  But they are not as "paranoid" and as intolerant as you!

  The world will go up in flames because of this mentality. Yet, infected minds welcome this because they are infected and unable to see their "truth" is not absolute. There will be no "new heavens and new earth in which dwelleth righteousness" but only a dead radioactive wasteland.

  These folks generally fail to excel in the world due to their mediocrity and lack of coping skills,

  You must mean failures like President Bush. When you get to be president you can say he failed to excel. By the tone of this post you're the one without "coping skills" D Dog
  
  
  Hi Deputy Dog!
  
  Paranoia and intolerance are not the same thing, nor are they related. I read dozens of WTS books and pamhlets and magainze articles about science and founf them to be paranoid in the dictionary sense of the word. That "science" and "scientists" constitute a huge conspiracy, headed by Satan, to destroy fasith in the Bible through "science falsely so called." I find the excat same attitudes among fundies when it comes to evolution, genetic manipulation, and just about everyhting else that has to do with origins. I've read some freaky rants from the Creations Reasearch Institute about evil-ution being the Work of the Evil One, as he heads up a worldwide Conspiracy to undermine faith in the Word O' God. This is not simply paranoia.
  
  I'm amused thjat you would bring up Pres Bush. So, unless I become President of the United States I have not excelled? Are you at all aware of what a failure Prez Bush was? He failed miserably at all the various businesses his dad set him up in. He was the ifiot sheep of the family. So, he was put forward as a presidential candidate, and he lost thr election. Then wonderful Bible-believing folks, good born-0again Christians, falsified the election results and he became Prez. H e proceeded to SPEND the entire SIX TRILLION DOLLAR budget surplus that Clinton had left the American people! He promised that three trillion would go toward solving the social security problem. It would have solved the problem for many generations to come. But arse-wipe Bush spend it on his terror attacks against Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9-11.
  
  You fundies should take your butts out of Bush's arse and objectively view that human slimebal, that stupid loose cannon, and stop licking his boots simply because he is anti-abortion. There are far more important matters than abortion. Here's a challenge for you hot-stuff: SHOW ME ONE VERSE IN THE BIBLE THAT IS ANTI-ABORTION! There arent any! In the OT there was a fine associated with casuing an abortion, thats all. Plus Jehovah was rather INTO killing the unborn babies of "wicked" mothers as well as infants and children. Please please please get your head out of your arse, m'k?
  
  The very fact that you are unable to think objectively about Bush reveals your utter lack of critical thinking skills, which of course reveals your inability to cope. I would venture that you are almost a failure in your life, having never acheived any of youre dreams. You "cope" by dreaming of the "sweet by and by" rather than rising to the challenge of life and becomine someone. I AM someone in real life, alas you are not and never will be.
  
  The tone of my post is one of contempt for losers. If you chooose to let yourself off the hook by projecting your own lack of coping skills onto me, more power to you. Whatever helps you get through your pointless life of failure. You deserve your paragon of success, Bush. G
• 

  Geronimo

  I'm not going to address the rest of your post. It seems a bit too generalized, though I get your point. This, however:

  So many of the former JWs here have embraced a religion that differs little from the Jehovah's Witnesses.

  This is common. Even people who leave Christianity entirely seem to retain the same value system, just without the authorizing God. They call it secular humanism. Christianity without God is all it amounts to.

  You're absolutely right! I met a Buddhist priest who had been raised a JW and the Buddhist sect he chose was the Nichiren sect. They're the Buddhist equivalent to the JWs. I shook my head and walked away. Stay free, my friend. G
• 

  Arthur

  Geronimo; are you trying to stir the pot? It's very difficult for me to believe that this thread was intended as a means of honest, mature, and rational debate. From the tone of your statements; it appears as though you wanted to start a fight.

  I take issue with your statements; not because I am a fundamentalits, but because you have made very broad, sweeping generalizations of Christian fundamentalists. You also were quite insulting to them as well. Personally, I disagree with many Christian fundamentalists, but at the same time, I respect the personal dignity that should be afforded to them on this site. You wrote:

  Second, they embrace the same "us versus them" mentality. This is a common trait of memes, of mental "viruses." They engenger murders, cruelty, savagery, injustice, and all manner of evil.

  Oh? Is this really so? Could you provide some kind of data or evidence to back up these fantastic claims? These are very antagonistic, emotionally charged words which do nothing to disprove the fundamentalist; but instead makes you look like a demagogue and a fool.

  You also wrote:

  These pitiful "born again" creatures are still frightened of the world and the universe and still feel ill at ease in the world, just as they did when they were JWs.

  Again, can you provide case studies? Data? Can you provide anything but rhetoric? I don't think you can. It appears that this thread was intended as a childish attention-grabbing scheme, and an attempt to poke certain people in the eye.

  Using sweeping generalizations, sloganeering, name-calling, and emotionally charged cliches does nothing to stimulate an honest and mature debate. Your thread does nothing to discredit those individuals on this site that you have a bizarre pet peeve towards. Instead, it reveals your incapability to participate in rational and coherent debate.

  Please quit insulting individuals on this site. If you want to debate certain theology; then debate. Don't diatribe. It just makes you look childish and gives the rest of us a headache.