Ever wonder why so many inactive ones never actually become ex-jws

by done4good 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  done4good

  I have been considering this often lately, as I know many who have for all intents and purposes, left the organization, yet they still believe it is the truth. I know when I left, it wasn't long before I had to really investigate for myself, (after a matter of about three months of just taking a "breather"), weather or not what jws taught was actually the "truth". I think, this was because I realized that SOMETHING other than just my own weakness had to be what made me "give up". As it turned out, I was right. There was, obviously much wrong with the organization, and it did not take me long to realize that it wasn't the "Truth". It was actually quite a simple process, once I did it.

  That said, what keeps "inactive" ones from taking it one step further and actually doing some research on the WTS? I mean, for the peace of mind alone, the time spent is worthwhile. I don't know how someone can live with the constant nagging feeling of "I just couldn't do it, but I know I'm wrong", kinda thing. I have an "inactive" jw friend of mine, almost completely not living the "jw lifestyle", yet is very reluctant to consider the possibility that the org just might be wrong. I really don't see how someone can be content with that.

  j
• 

  TopHat

  They are still afraid of the BIG A and hoping they might go back to the WTS just before the BIG A so as to be saved.
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  I like to call this the "Anchor" syndrome. Those inactive who don't investigate the Org to find out the truth about it are just keeping the whole idea as thier ace in the hole. It is the hope that is an "anchor" for the soul. Even though they are taking time off for "bad behaviour", they still hold to the idea that all will be forgiven when they decide to return. If there is some sort of truth out there, there is still a reason for living. When you remove any possibility of hope, there is no point for even a life of dissapation. Some have such low self esteem that they cannot act on the impossible expectations of the truth. Once they find they can live life without it they become comfortable. Then its always, "maybe one day" blah blah. They attend the memorial to remind themselves of the obligation and the possibility of redemption in the future, but have no interest in doing anything till life craps on them and they see the benefit of signing on again.

  For what its worth.

  W.Once
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The inactive ones that I have spoken to in the past believe that they are inactive due to their own shortcomings.
  They are involved in sins and will stop eventually. They are chasing the Almighty Dollar and feel that
  they should go back to the KH.

  W.Once has it about right.
• 

  garybuss

  I was raised as a Witness so I wasn't a Witnesses because of religion. I actually wasn't a very religious person. I quit associating because of the way many of the Witness people treated me and I experienced more disconfirmations than I could forgive or rationalize away.
  
  I was 30 in 1974 when I left and I was a believing walkaway for 18 years. I might have stayed silent had the Witness people not messed with my family and if the Witnesses had not started shunning me. I had a really rough 5 years from 1992 into 1996. I went very public in 1995.
  
  I talked to hundreds of people and I read over 200 related books in addition to loads of Watch Tower Publishing produced books and magazines. I tested myself on everybody who would bounce things back to me. I practiced on elders and I studied their tactics. I found out the most fun way to talk to them was to learn all their flips and flip their flips.
  
  I worked out a 5 flip strategy and learned how to reduce to the ridiculous. Witness elders hate equal application of principle. They try to hold all principle to context. The fun is waiting for them to take a principle out of context. Now that's the operative principle.
  
  The elders I know are really ignorant about the Society doctrines and history. I never personally met one elder that had read a Russell book from cover to cover, let alone all of them. I went through a list with one elder and he had not read one of the Russell books OR Rutherford books or any of their Watchtower magazines.
  
  As I quoted from book after book, his final comment was: "When do you find time to read all these?". Hahahaha!!! I laughed for a solid week at that one.
  
  The last elder I talked to, called me during the purge of 2003. He hung up on me after just one flip. What a meat head!
  
  
• 

  bluesapphire

  Gary, what do you mean by "flip"? I successfully faded and moved away from my old congregation and then moved again. For about 6 years all went well. Until my sister moved into the congregation in the area where I now live.
  
  For nearly 2 years no one bothered us. The only one who shunned me was my sister. All of a sudden people began shunning me when I'd run into them. And my husband's mom stopped coming over to see her only grandson. When my husband asked her why she said I had made my choice so I can live with it. Apparently my sister spread that I was apostate. She's really the only one who knew how I really felt about the religion for many years. She must have gotten tired of being the only one who shunned me and of seeing that "holy spirit" never got rid of me in the congregation's eyes.
  
  Well this past weekend two elders from her hall (one is the PO) came by. I've never met them before and at first they acted like I was just a plain old householder, gave their schpeel, I even let them place their rags w/me. When I did not volunteer that I had been a JW, I could tell they moved to plan B.
  
  The one guy said, "Are you blabla's sister?" I said, "Yeah." Nothing further. "So you have been a witness?" "Yeah" Nothing further. "So were you just studying or were you ever baptized." "Yeah." silcence again (they looked frustrated at having to pull teeth with me. I volunteered nothing and they knew damned well I had been baptized.) "So, uh, *nervous temble* do you still believe it's the truth, *tremble/studder* still consider yourself a witness?" "Haven't given it much thought, really." silence again.
  
  They both looked at each other at a loss for what to do next since plan B failed too. They obviously thought I was going to be so stupid as to disassociate myself to them. HA! He said something about my being accountable to God and I said, "Yep." and they just looked at me again with stupid blank stares and finally said, "Well, have a nice day." I said, "Yep, you too. Bye."
  
  So, back to the question, what is a flip? I know they're coming back and I'm going to use my same strategy but I want to know what a flip is. I just wanna mess with them. You know, make them waste their time and get all irritated that I don't fall into their traps. What do you think plan C will be?
• 

  Seeker4

  Gary, I'm interested in the "5 flip startegy" as well. You write with a confident, straightforward authority that is hard to deny, and I think it would be quite intimidating to a lot of the elders I know if you spoke to them in the same manner. Clearly, calmly and allowing no disrespect.

  You're picture is awesome too. I'd think twice about giving you any shit. Actually, I think twice about giving anyone any shit. Just not in my nature. But, I don't take any either.

  Expand and expound on your ideas as you have time. I find you're viewpoints always useful.

  S4
• 

  garybuss

  A flip is always a question and good ones put them in a double bind.

  The elder calls and asks for my wife. I stall him for 5 minutes and he asks again and I ask if he has a message for her. He says we'd like her to come to meetings again. I ask "Why's that?", and he says, "The end's near." and I say, "Do you have any proof this time?". That was a flip and he couldn't answer. He hung up on me.

  My favorite flips send them back to their own publications.

  I love to answer with, "I agree with the Watchtower on that.". Never say Bible, always say Watchtower and STOP. Never explain what you mean. If they push for explanation I'll ask if they have some problem with the Watchtower.

  If they ask me what I think about something they say I might say it's incredible. :-)

  One thing more you can do is when they ask you a question, tell them you'll think about it and let them know. Now close for their names, addresses, and phone numbers.

  Know all their trick questions and just answer that you agree with the Watchtower on that point.

  Another thing I do to give myself time is to take notes. That way I can write down any questions I want to think about. Taking the notes separates me from my emotions.

  I have a natural rhythm and I work em like a nightclub comedian. The first time they step in it I offer to take them to my stocked Watchtower library.

  Again, a flip is just answering a question with a question and a good flip puts them in a double bind. There's Bible story about Jesus flipping some elder . . . something about John the Baptist. It's a perfect example. I just don't know where it's at. :-)

  After 5 flips I've never had one elder remember his original question. He who asks the questions controls the conversation. The first flip takes control. They try to take it back, flip em again. I don't usually introduce a straw man, although I do that. I try to get them to bite on a term like "Judas goat".
  
  A team will chant and tag. It's important to stop the chant. You can throw off the tag by only talking or looking at one. That really throws em off. Two is more fun because they are easier to trip up. Another thing to off em a little is to ask how many people they studied into the organization that are still in. You can just see the blood drain from their faces on that one.
• 

  OUTLAW

  It`s too much work..You`d have to use your brain...OUTLAW
• 

  bluesapphire

  Gary, you're using lingo I'm not familiar with. Chant and tag? Is that when they prepare a scenario ahead of time to trap you? Give us an example. Do you just ignore the second elder and everything he says like he's not there? Too funny! Can you imagine how humiliating? Just that alone is saying, "In your face! You have no authority over me!" But they're so legalistic that if they don't actually hear the words, their hands are tied. Beat 'em at their own game.