$h*T happens

by purplesofa 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    What you direct the focus of your mind to will tend to gain prominence in your life.

    By the buddhist focus upon suffering and upon suppression of natural emotional responses they are, IMO, suggesting deadening ourselves rather than addressing the issues, inner or otherwise... It's like the religious version of using anti-depressants to hide oneself from the realities of life. (FWIW, I have nothing against using anti-depressants at all, within reason.)

    I mean, how depressing is that? To equate all life, all existence purely as suffering? Keep in mind that these ideas were formulated by a Princewho, pampered to the extreme his entire life, never seeing how the rest of the world lived, was shocked leaving his little garden of eden to find a slum outside. (Or that's how the story goes.)

    Why should all the items listed above be about suffering?

    No doubt buddhist masters gain some amount of practical results. I acknowledge that, I respect that. But I spent too much time with Christianity telling me all life is sinful to spend much in another religion that makes basically the same philosophical claim of the nature of existence

    Well said!

    Yes, we all suffer at times. Life is bittersweet and there are no guarantees that all will be sunshine and bliss. However, I still prefer living, feeling, and embracing this existence instead deadening myself to it and calling it all "suffering."

  • bebu
    bebu

    I'll join your chorus, daystar and robdar. Life has suffering... but it is not only suffering. And I wouldn't want to ignore the normal 'good' stuff that comes each day, as well as the exceptional types of goodness which occur only when something bad is overcome. (United 93, for ex.)

    Purp, I think if I had been raised to micro-interpret every thing that happened in my life as God's/Satan's judgment/testing/approval/disapproval... I'd have nothing to say at all because I'd be confused for sure!!

    bebu

  • Bodhisattva1320
    Bodhisattva1320

    Bodhisattava,

    Been reading a lot of your posts since you came on here. You're very bright. I like how you think.

    S4

    Thank you for the support Seeker :)

  • Bodhisattva1320
    Bodhisattva1320
    By the buddhist focus upon suffering and upon suppression of natural emotional responses....

    just to clarify- buddhist thought does not focus on suffering- this is just an very clear understanding they have- We All Suffer- Unlike western theological thought "life should be perfect- if its not - you are doing or have done something wrong" which translates to sin- an idea i am not fond of ;)

  • daystar
    daystar

    mmmm... the basic ideologies are built upon a premise that all is suffering. If that's not being focused on suffering, I don't know what is.

    In practice, the buddhist reaction is not to be focused on anything but their own navels, thus ignoring pain and pleasure, detachment from all the world in order to dodge some pain.

    Similarly to how the Witnesses view "independent thinking" as a negative, buddhist teachings teach one to view detachment as a positive. I, for one, would much rather be fully engaged with existence than be detached from it.

  • Bodhisattva1320
    Bodhisattva1320

    i acknoledge your 'point' however you are taking it to the extreme....

    Similarly to how the Witnesses view "independent thinking" as a negative, buddhist teachings teach one to view detachment as a positive. I, for one, would much rather be fully engaged with existence than be detached from it.

    thier teachings are LIBERAL, practical and NON THEISTIC. nothing like JW's- not even close. the EXACT opposite in fact.

    i think your interpretation of buddhist thought might be a little disproportionate... not every belief system demands worship- or even conformity. for example buddhist monks, male and female, create thier own vows... interesting considering they do not have to conform to a "acceptable" lifestyle but yet still can be dedicated to humanity (which in the end is thier ENTIRE point).

  • daystar
    daystar

    Bodhi

    Please note that I am not making a complete comparison of buddhist thought to Christian. I understand that buddhism is more a philosophy than a religion.

    What I am comparing is the basis for the buddhist paradigm, that existence is suffering, to the basis for the Christian, that existence is in a state of sin, by default. They're not exactly the same, but are both quite negative bases for a philosophy for life.

    not every belief system demands worship- or even conformity. for example buddhist monks, male and female, create thier own vows... interesting considering they do not have to conform to a "acceptable" lifestyle but yet still can be dedicated to humanity (which in the end is thier ENTIRE point).

    I never said they did. And certainly, what you mention are noble qualities, IMO. In many ways buddhism has resulted in a religion that I find much more appealing than Christianity, though not without its faults.

    I am, however, still at odds with the basic premise that all life is suffering. I can't get around that really. I don't choose to base my life upon such negativity as, regardless what surrounds it, the core is certainly a negative.

    How about rather than we assume that all life is suffering, we assume that all life is joy?! How about we assume that that is its natural state? I wonder where we would go from there...

    But really... Namaste.

  • Bodhisattva1320
    Bodhisattva1320

    How about rather than we assume that all life is suffering, we assume that all life is joy?! How about we assume that that is its natural state? I wonder where we would go from there...

    But really... Namaste.

    hahaha i think that is a freakin fantabulous idea and i agree that life most definitely is joyful - none the less as the origianl poster of this thread shows us, hard times will come - so let us be prepared with strong minds to deal - which i can clearly see you will have no trouble doin' that daystar !

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    "How about rather than we assume that all life is suffering, we assume that all life is joy?!"

    IMO, that just doesn't seem to be the natural state of life, by any stretch (though perhaps not a bad mindset, conceptually). Nature seems to extend suffering much more readily than joy. I think the beauty of modernity and progress, is that humans can beat back suffering and can experience more joy than "nature" would extend.

    Of course, it's not a pure dichotomy; joy and suffering are not exact opposites, and even to the extent they are, there is a continuum between them. I'm no expert on Buddhism, but I suspect that the value of it's philosophy is in enabling people to have joy, or at least peace, even as they experience the inevitable suffering?

    But give us a few years, and I'm sure there will be a pill that eliminates all suffering, and maximizes joy and peace. It may even have a high THC and/or MDMA content :P~ ;)

  • daystar
    daystar

    sixofnine

    I think it all depends upon a person's attitude, state of mind, perspective...

    For example, I think a Paris Hilton type might consider roughing it in the woods with no indoor facilities, no makeup, no cel phone, etc. to be suffering. You or I might really enjoy it!

    Where one person might consider destitution to be suffering, another might consider it an opportunity to create themselves anew.

    Admittedly, taking that second sort of attitude would certainly be the more difficult one.

    But this is all my point. To you, it doesn't seem to be the natural state of life, to me, it rather does and suffering is the unnatural state of things. When you battle against human suffering, you battle against what you believe to be the natural state of things. You are battling nature. When I do, I am fighting to return life to its natural state. I align myself with the natural state of things, from my view.

    Do you see the difference?

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