A voice from Sweden

by Norm 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    The Swedish paper Expressen September 20, 2001.

    We were ordered to become Americans.

    The other night Swedish fighter planes patrolled our skies. According to the defense ministry this was a link in our heightened readiness towards terrorism. In reality the fighter planes was just requisite’s in the political theatre which the prime minister and the media is writing with enthusiasm and cooperation. The title of the play is “We are all American’s” and it was started on the “Expressens” front page. The prime minister stated that the terror attack against the USA I reality was an “attack on us all”.

    This is of course not true. The terrorist must have been dumbfound from surprise when they heard about the Swedish fighter planes in the North European night. More obvious targets than the World Trade Center, Pentagon and probably the White House is difficult to imagine. The Terrorists attacked the USA imperialism. No human being on earth could have misunderstood the message.

    The will to become American isn’t very difficult to understand when it comes to the enthusiasts on for example the Svenska Dagbladet editorial page which has been writing in perverted glee all week because the terror attack has given an opening not only to express love for everything American but to hateful attacks on all perceived to be enemies of the USA. Those have got what they deserved, that’s what’s happen if you criticize the USA. Then you become a terrorist.

    So we were all ordered to be Americans. Our grief which we were ordered to manifest collectively, was according to orders greater than any other incident after the second world war.

    The terrorists that attacked USA killed an incomprehensible number of innocent people, some estimates goes up to ten thousand lives. It is about a third of the number of just as innocent people which were killed when Israel attacked Lebanon in the beginning of the eighties. That is if you count only the civilian lives. Uniformed lives are according to western standards of far less value. No one of the writers of editorials in Stockholm did however come up with the silly idea of one single minutes silence for those victims, just as little as we saw any of those bloodthirsty people make us all Lebanese.

    USA is the great mass murderer of our time. Alone in the Vietnam war and its neighboring countries 4 million lives was lost. Not a single minute of silence in Sweden.

    Racism explains a lot but not all the way if one should try to figure out the grotesque injustice we use when we value the lives counting the dead.

    When President Clinton had difficulties with the public because Monica was to testify about the cigar, he sent cruise missiles over Afghanistan and Sudan. What those bombs actually hit in Afghanistan is unknown today. In Sudan the American weapons destroyed half of the country’s capacity for producing medicine, in a factory which was built with the support of the UN. Those actions probably took some of the heat off the embarrassing publicity around Clinton. After all he just killed a few anonymous Muslims, No minute of silence there either.

    The current waving of the American flag is an even gloomier explanation than our unequal treatment of the value of human life. The flag wavers want us to go to war on the American side. It is us white in the rich world against the Muslim world. The American regime has explained that we are now at war. It is probably not a puny revenge we can prepare for. Several Stockholm newspapers have already joined us in the war through openly advocating both a crusade and religious war. That’s what it means when we are all Americans.

    But alas, we are Europeans. We are the only power on earth that can stand up against the Americans if they carry out their alleged plans of a long and holy war. A war between the worlds white and the worlds Muslims would if nothing else lead to a disaster of Biblical proportions in our own Europe, where about 40 millions citizens are Muslims.

    We are thus not Americans. We are Europeans. The terrorists from the hassled and frequently mass murdered Muslim world for obvious reasons attacked USA and not Europe. And they didn’t do it, as one of the editorial writers in one of the most esteemed morning papers suggested because they were envious of the US standard of living. But to revenge millions of murdered people.

    Defense for terrorism? Of course not. My very modest suggestion is simply that we should look at American wars of terror with the same spectacles as we use on Muslim terrorism.

    Written by Jan Guillau

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Where would you be today Norm? Terrible, wicked America saves your fat behind from being a target or a prole (who works for the good of Stalin or the Fatherland) who lives in a one room shack.
    You are an ungrateful jerk.

    America SHOULD abandon the rest of the world to it's own fate.

    Except, 99% of the population are not agreed with your own skewed views....and you know it. Just remember this: YOU would not be on here whining without the freedom given you by loyal patriots in the Christian republics that you so despise.
    Hypocrite!
    Rex

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I also agree that the attacks were not attacks on humanity, but clearly carried out against America, even though many other countries lost citizens in the attack.

    America is clearly portraying the attack as an attack on all free countries to rally support for its own controversial plans of a counterattack which would kill more innocent people.

    Comments such as those from Rex further explain why America needs to take a hard look at itself, it's foreign policies and it's attitude toward other nations and it's place in the world. Such ignorance and arrogance hardly endears anyone and explains much of the dislike toward America by Europe.

    Until America is prepared to act as a member of a world community instead of elevating themselves to some fictional savior of the world, it has to be prepared to be a more likely target for terrorists.

    Path

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy Norm,

    Interesting points - a little black/white, however. Oh, to be more precise Muslim/white. Forgot the blacks/spanish/orientals/indians, etc.

    The flag wavers want us to go to war on the American side. It is us white in the rich world against the Muslim world.

    Name me any recent military encounter that didn't want others to side with them. Remember the British in WWII? Damned the Americans for not entering in on their side sooner. Against what enemies? Rich White Germans.

    Whites = rich world, Muslim = rest of the world. Only rich whites. Blacks/spanish/orientals/indians etc., don't exist. Do rich whites control the world? Probably. That might be - might be - one reason we're discussing this as we are. Who knows how much worse/better the world would be with a different color controlling. Probably, we'd be bitching about the rich *........* (insert color/ethnics of your choice.)

    Well, I'm not one of the rich whites. Blue collar worker by trade. If war comes out - which I have not spoken of in a positive light -it will be all colors fighting.

    I understand the political thrust of what you're saying - America is the Bastard of the World. I don't agree with how the politics are played here more than anywhere else in the world. But I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world - just as you probably value your own country of residence. I know Path values his country quite highly......and might think a shade differently if his mother city had been grossly attacked.

    Difference is.......I'm not damning your country of residence. Is the usa always right, using might for the benefit of all humanity? Nope....and name me any country which it is proven beyond doubt that they do. Any corporation, any religion, almost any human besides Mother Theresa and Ghandi.

    I don't think throwing anybody's flag around or inciting to war is correct - but neither do I think terrorism is correct.

    waiting

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Norm: I am not completely sure of the intent of your post. But no American, neither the general population, the military, or our government wants anyone to side with us that do not want to. If the Swedish people do not want to share, even when their media endorses doing so, then they should not share. That is thier choice.

    But I find the expressions made in your post about USA imperialism, etc. to be a strange harkening back to the days of Communist jingoism. And this statement really irritated me:

    [quote]"USA is the great mass murderer of our time. Alone in the Vietnam war and its neighboring countries 4 million lives was lost."

    Mass murderer? Hardly. The USA sent military advisors to Viet Nam during the Eisenhower Administration at the request of Vietnamese. As the Communists, who were supported by China and the north supported them, the USA stepped up its support of people who did not want communism. Keeping communism in check has been a long satanding USA policy since WWII.

    Viet Nam War was a mistake, not because of any alleged imperialism, but because our mission became fuzzy, and we did not conduct the war to win it. Finally the American people resisted the war and forced the government by popular demand to end the war. Hardly an act of an imperialist nation, a mass murdering nation. Americans admit the error in staying in Viet Nam, and it cost us 58,000 American lives. I don't know what it cost North Viet Nam by way of lives, but I hardly think it was 4,000,000 in the region. And if it was, it was much closer to conventinal war, and those are the stakes of war.

    Further, Vietnamese and other Southeast Asian people train their children to fight, wear bombs straped to their chest, and engage in suicide terror against South Vietnamese and American soldiers. So these additional casualities are their own fault.

    To call the USA a mass murderer is far from anything that is accurate or true. Slogans like that are mere attempts of propaganda to shift the blame, and harms accurate historical reporting. Americans acknowledge our errors, and have done what we could to correct them.

    If your post is intended to make it appear that somehow Americans deserve what happened at the WTC in New York, then shame on those who would support such an idea. They are no better then the terrorists themselves. This world will never be a better place as long as people hold these ideas and act on them. - Amazing

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Norm,

    Thank you for your post.

    Being a European myself I have some sympathy for some of the points made by the journalist in your post. It becomes too easy to paint America as the Saint and its enemies as sinners in this highly emotionally charged scenario.

    What has to be acknowledged however, is that the act of terrorism that we saw in all too graphic detail on our screens was an attempt by religious fanatics, who have declared a Jihad against the US on the grounds of religious, not political ideology, to start a world-wide conflagration against the enemy. The enemy is seen as anybody who will not live by a peculiar brand of extremist Islamic codes, often in direct conflict with the Holy Koran itself. On this basis, if they were successful, somewhere along the line Sweden would certainly be using its military forces to protect itself.

    The stated aims of the extreme left of the Muslim world is to provoke a universal war by these acts. As such they have little concern if they kill Muslims, Christians, Americans or even Scandinavians. This is not about territory and borders it is about a religious ideology and the desire to have one world religion by any means and as such is very different from the examples that are illustrated in his article.

    I have no answers on this issue, just questions, but my own experience having had a friend who became embroiled in an Islamic group many years ago, is that reasoning and tolerance both vie for bottom position in their list of important issues. Taking or not taking military action against them is of no concern to them. They know that inoccent Muslims were killed by the thousands in Sudan, Iraq, Palestine etc, ultimately with US support in one way or the other. It has not changed their agenda by one degree either.

    Best regards - HS

  • nytelecom1
    nytelecom1

    sweden has fighter pilots??

    you're joking right??

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Hi NYT,

    lol. Actually that should read ‘fighter pilot’, in the singular.

    On a more serious note. It may surprise you to know that the Scandinavians have a fearsome historical reputation as tenacious and unyielding fighters.

    Remember, it was the Finns who fought a simultaneous war, with light weapons and infantry only, against the Nazis and the Russians in WWII and despite horrible losses fought both these huge military powers to a standstill.

    Provoke Vikings at your own peril - HS

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Hi Norm;

    This guy is running an arguement to extremes. Yeah, the US have been involved in very morally dubious actions. It doesn't mean that they should say sorry after this is pointed out to them by someone driving planes into sky-scrapers.

    He also ignores the fact that whilst civilians have undoubtedly been killed in US military actions, they have not specifically been the target of US strikes authorised and planned at the highest level.

    He conveniently ignores any mention of the terrorism carried out against members of their own country by terrorists, e.g. women in Afghanistan.

    He is implying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, living in a country where forced sterilization was government policy for anyone who didn't fit the template of perfect Swedishness by too great a margin.

    If he hadn't tried to be so clever he would have made a point.

    The point that he could have made was that injustice is injustice whether the blood is a Muslim's shed by Jew or a Christian's shed by Muslim, and that the only hope for long term world security is an assurance that injustice will not be tolerated, no matter who has the upperhand.

    nytelecom; Saab make rather good jet fighters as well as cars. You can tell them from other fighters by the specially-shaped cockpit canopies to allow for the pilot's helmet, which in true Viking style has horns on it.

    Keep on rocking in the free world...

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Sverige:

    Let's take a brief look at some REAL mass murderers for a change. For example, the POL POHT regime in Cambodia is estimated to have murdered over 5 million of his own population.

    How about Stalin, who trounced Hitler in the "most genocide statistics" during his reign. Do you remember his 5 year "pogroms" against Ukranians, Georgians, etc... Millions lost and destroyed evidence.

    (Per Lisa) The turkish armenian massacre which also took 6 million lives!

    What about Idi Amin Dada in Uganda? Robert Mugabe in Liberia? The list goes on and on and on.

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