Question about apostosy

by gordon d 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jgnat

  Like all high-control religions, the JW's have broadened the meaning of apostate to include anyone who disagrees with them. But this is not the original meaning.

  http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a67.html

  Since the Pharisees were the God-appointed leaders of their day, was not Jesus apostate when he criticised and undermined their leadership? Or perhaps the JW's get around that by claiming the leadership transferred in the waters of baptism. If so, what of Jesus' challenging and questioning of the wise ones at the temple when he was thirteen? Was he not "running ahead" of the organization then?What of John the Baptist's preaching ...he was a mere prophet...yet he continuously challenged the leaders of his day?

  By definition, I am not apostate. I have never left my faith. The worst the JW's could calll me is an "opposer". Yet, my JW husband accuses me of "apostate thinking" all the time.
• 

  Gordy

  Here is the definition of "Apostacy" taken from the section in the Elders manual "Pay Attention to the Flock"

  Apostasy.

  Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false
  doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh.
  22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18;2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4)

  Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1
  pp. 21-2)

  Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
  people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10)

  Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
  by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.

  If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
  tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.

  If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make a brief announcement to the congregation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p. 31 )

  Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false
  doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16)

  Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19)

  The Bible condemns the following:

  Causing divisions and promoting sects.

  This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence
  of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement.

  It may involve or lead to apostasy. (Rom. 16: 17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11 )

  The practice of spiritism. (Deut. 18:9-13; I Cor. 10: 21, 22; Gal. 5:20)

  Idolatry. ( I Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14)

  Idolatry includes the possession and use of images and pictures that are employed in false religion.

  Drunkenness. (I Cor. 5:11; 6:9,10; it-l p. 656)

  Stealing, thievery, fraud. (Lev. 6:2, 4; I Cor. 6:9, 10; Eph. 4:28; it-l p. 870)

  Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false witness. (Prov. 6: 16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2 pp. 244-5)

  Reviling; slander. (Lev. 19:16; I Cor. 6:10; it-l pp. 989-91; it-2 pp. 801-2)

  Obscene speech. (Eph. 5:3-5; Col. 3:8)

  Failure to abstain from blood. (Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:20, 28, 29)

  Greed‹gambling, extortion. (I Cor. 5:10, 11; 6:10; I Tim. 3:8; it-l pp. 1005-6)

  Adamant refusal to provide materially for one's ovn family‹leaving wife and children destitute when having the
• 

  greendawn

  Apostacy to them is the rejection of any JW doctrine. Supposedly it is all inspired of God and the FDS is God directed but no one directed by God would be so incompetent as to fail to produce stable doctrine even after 130 years of existence. Therefore those questioning them have a good a priori basis to do so they could well be saying something very sound and beneficial. But not so for the petty GB dictators.
• 

  gordon d

  My jaw is on my lap.... All I can say is, "Holy Crap!"
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Apostasy.

  Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false
  doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh.
  22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18;2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4)

  Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1
  pp. 21-2)

  Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
  people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10)

  Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
  by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates.

  If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be inves-
  tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed.

  If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make a brief announcement to the congregation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p. 31 )

  Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false
  doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16)

  Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19)

  The Bible condemns the following:

  Causing divisions and promoting sects.

  This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence
  of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement.

  Those highlighted areas are the ones that make me 'apostate'. I did not realize just how damn evil I had become.

  Jeff
• 

  daystar

  Idolatry includes the possession and use of images and pictures that are employed in false religion.

  LOL!!

  http://kheph777.tripod.com/art_discourse.html - Related to John Dee's Enochian documents regarding the "Watchtowers".
• 

  bennyk

  01. April 1986 QfR:

  Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.

  This is most fascinating. When the F&DS was supposedly appointed in 1919, the Watch Tower Society was still teaching that the Resurrection had begun in 1878 -- a teaching not altered until 1927 -- and which teaching the WTS now rejects as false. Does it not bugger the imagination to believe the Lord appointed over all his belongings an organisation that (by its own published standard) would be 'rightly branded apostate, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship'?
• 

  Borgia

  Gordon,

  It´s an all or nothing game that is being played here.

  Even being is is basically apostacy as per the last resolution that many had the priveledge of accepting without thinking.

  But, one area has not been addressed: Who are "Jehovahs's Witnesses", as in "as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses". Gordon, if you are one of them, this is not about you! Not about me nor my brother. This is about the ones who decide what the doctrine is: excusez le mot: present truth.

  Therefore, by definition, anything they do or teach can hardly be considered apostacy.

  If you do not move as quickly as they do, you are considered apostate by even slowing down!

  Cheers Mate (check mate)

  Borgia