Holidays (page 2)

Mulan

What is your motive when celebrating a given holiday? If it is simply to enjoy the occasion (with or without whatever trappings you choose to include) and give thanks to God[dess] for the enjoyment of it, where's the quandry? I especially think that kids benefit all the more for a little excitement and "ritual" in their lives. Holidays are just the kind of occasions to give them that. The only reason we really think twice about it, as exJWs, is because a bunch of killjoys put it all in a negative light for us and suggested we HAVE to look into the minutea of any celebration for paranoid fear that there might be something wrong in it. Blow that for a game of soldiers! If they can accept a wedding band, with all its pagan connotations (should you choose to acknowledge them) then why are they "straining out the gnat and gulping down the camel"? Personally I fight such psychological barriers to examine whether or not my response is a genuine one or imposed through years of conditioning. Many folks struggle with a similar (but when you treally think about it, totally stupid) thing about entering a building just because it bears a title "church". It's a very real issue, and can be debilitating, but that doesn't make it any less daft.
When it comes to holidays, I honestly don't think God is that small-minded. From what I read, Jesus certainly wasn't...

EXcellent! Thanks Ross. This is exactly how I feel too.

Daystar:I disagree with the term "supplant", prefering "absorb". Just as the Catholic church attempted to take over the Winter Solstice, so Capitalism has attempted to take over Christmas. The underlying concepts and symbology remains the same and sparks off something deep within.

While many of the symbols that we use have underlying similarities in our subconscious, I believe that we redefine them somewhat. Whether someone gives thanks for prosperity to a "god" of trees, a god of heavens, or a God of gods is generally in the eyes of the beholder.

I guess my point is that the whole question is moot because our intent is what matters. Rom.14:14.

Mulan:
I was thinking of your family as I wrote that. In particular the scene of BigRed sitting down with the grandkids, telling them Xmas stories. Those are family rituals that last a lifetime, and that particular one is a memory that will last me a lifetime. They are priceless!!!

Blessings to you and all your family

daystar

I disagree with the term "supplant", prefering "absorb". Just as the Catholic church attempted to take over the Winter Solstice, so Capitalism has attempted to take over Christmas. The underlying concepts and symbology remains the same and sparks off something deep within.

I am in agreement.

While many of the symbols that we use have underlying similarities in our subconscious, I believe that we redefine them somewhat. Whether someone gives thanks for prosperity to a "god" of trees, a god of heavens, or a God of gods is generally in the eyes of the beholder.

Again, agreement.

I guess my point is that the whole question is moot because our intent is what matters. Rom.14:14.

Hmmm... I have problems with this philosophy generally though, as to which end of the equation a person is responsible for, intent or outcome. My mother has the best of intentions, I am sure, but she is controlling, manipulative and coercive, for example.

But anyway, I get your point, just tend to disagree somewhat.

diamondblue1974

I love Christmas because I'm a BIG kid! I love giving pressies and opening my own. I love the Christmas films and the spirit Christmas engenders. In the words of the song "Oh, I wish it could be Christmas every day." That's how I feel. People, in general, seem so much friendlier at that time of year.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you Ian - I love Christmas.

Although I could well do without that song being implanted into my subconscious in October....its bad enough when its played non stop on the radio around end of November to December. Thank you for allowing it to fester a little early!

In terms of the history surrounding Christmas and other holidays I think its important to understand where they originate from and what they meant to people back then; its a helpful reminder of all that we have now and how things could have been. I agree with Ross too in that children especially benefit from a little bit of ritual in their lives- for instance with Christmas, if kids are taught to give gifts at certain times of the year, it can teach them generosity and other virtues. It also gives them something to look forward to. Something sadly lacking with many JW families is the replacement for such times of year.

DB74

LittleToe

Daystar:I'm afraid you've lost me. How does your scenario contradict the assertion that each are responsible to God for their own actions, whith their conscience accusing or excusing them?

You'll recall the Jesus greatest gripe was with hypocracy, not alleged "wrongdoing".

Intent is all that matters when it's something that only affects you. Cause and effect also comes into play when you're meddling with another sentient being...

Zico

I've never celebrated Christmas, or a Birthday, but don't have a problem with them anymore. Considering how competitive, snobby and jealous some members can get though, I often wonder if it's a good thing that the JWs aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas/Birthdays? It would cause mayhem!

Sunspot

Ross...you have hit it right on the head! Although I was somewhat cautious about putting any decorations up on the outside of my house for two Christmases after leaving the WTS....I was not thinking of what they "denoted" or of the "pagan connotations" that the WTS wants to associate with the holiday...

...but I was more concerned about several of my JW neighbors thinking (as I used to) that I had "returned to the vomit", and I was uncomfortable in what they would think. I have moved past that mindset and can decorate to my heart's content with a GOOD feeling, and the joy that the lights and things will bring to so many countless others passing by my home, who share the same spirit!

Annie

daystar

Intent is all that matters when it's something that only affects you.

Perhaps I have trouble with the "responsible to God" part, since I take a rather different approach, as you might know. To me intent only matters philosophically and not practically if the outcome is either an antithesis or just a complete failure. Intent is only a part of the equation to me, the phallic part, and is not necessarily of the highest import. There is still the womb and the child of that union of intent and gestation.

MegaDude

LittleToe

Daystar:
Sorry pal. I'm normally on your wavelength straightaway, but you've got me dancing on the head of a pin with all those angels.

First you asked whether Xmas has pagan influences, then you asked something about intent, and now I'm completely lost. I'm afraid I can't follow your train of thought.

Would you mind rearticulating it for the ole dunderhead, here, please?

Holidays

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