Cults generally don't attract people with good educations and incomes. The WTS cult is looking for people for whom full-time book-selling is a step up from what they currently have.
College Degree = $23K more a year salary
by under_believer 32 Replies latest jw friends
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yaddayadda
Very good thread, but at the same time there is a lot of research that proves that above a certain minimum standard of living, earning more money has absolutely no effect on ones level of happiness. In fact, above a certain point, the more money one has, the more unhappy they are. Sure, the JW's are wrong to denounce higher education, but at the same time the western world has been deluded into thinking that college degrees and higher salaries will in themselves make you happy and fulfilled. More and more people are wising up to the working myth and the shallow promises of materialism, without having to be JWs or Christians.
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thecarpenter
Well, it depends on your view of money. The scriptures actually say that the love of money is the root to all sorts of injurious things. On the other hand, when one doesn't have enough, that also leads to alot of anxiety. It is not fun to be behind in your rent or not being able to repair your car. The key is balance and living beneath your means. I personally am quite impressed with some rich people like Mayor Mike Bloomberg who is a billionaire (5 billion range) and yet he is well grounded. He even takes the subway to work in the morning. Yes he has cars and planes but it doesn't define him just as lack of money shouldn't define us.
Personally, I view money as a tool to do things. The amount isn't important as long I have enough to do what I want to do. That makes me happy (haven't went on vacation in 5 years but didn't really want to go any where anyway). On the other hand, brought plenty of gadgets which I do enjoy. Everyones level of comfort is different. I think I will start going away on vacation though, starting to get that urge to travel again....
Apostfest in Las Vegas, here I come!!!! -
thecarpenter
By the way, earning more with a college degree is one of the benefits. Expanding your mind and options are other great benefits. I really enjoy learning new things and celebral pursuits. This is one of the things that I really resented about the organization. They equated a college education to material pursuits mainly and discounted the educational part of it as a wasted effort. This is like saying that marriage is only for sex (what a ignorant view). Yes, you can increase your earning potential with a college degree but it also opens a whole new world that most didn't know existed. This is one of the most wonderful things you can do for yourself. It is sad when one misses out on this...
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SirNose586
Very good thread, but at the same time there is a lot of research that proves that above a certain minimum standard of living, earning more money has absolutely no effect on ones level of happiness. In fact, above a certain point, the more money one has, the more unhappy they are. Sure, the JW's are wrong to denounce higher education, but at the same time the western world has been deluded into thinking that college degrees and higher salaries will in themselves make you happy and fulfilled. More and more people are wising up to the working myth and the shallow promises of materialism, without having to be JWs or Christians.
So....cleaning pools into your 60s will make you happier? I worked briefly for a brother who cleaned pools. He was self-employed. One day at lunch, he looked faraway and sighed, "I'm getting too old for this." Now, I've heard several people say this in a sort of joking manner, but I was no humorous tone to his voice. He was bone-tired. I had respect for him for being in business for 20 years or so, but I thought, "If making enough money to retire, or at least having a career in a professional environment hadn't been discouraged, he could be enjoying his later years. Instead he must do hard labor in the hot sun to make a living." So I figured, either he loved pool cleaning with all his heart and just couldn't hack it anymore, or his entrepenurial spirit was curtailed by the Borg. I think there is definitely an undercurrent of resentment against dubs who have been able to make a good living and still be in the good graces of the congregation. An older couple in my hall went on a 1.5 month tour of Europe. In talking about it with my dad, he grumbles, "Well, you can certainly tell they're RETIRED," as if to chide them for having a nest egg to spend. It must be hard for some dubs to hear parts on the convention that blast "401ks, pensions, and investments" as snares of Satan, while at the same time they have these investment plans. But you will never hear them talk about how strange it sounds. In the current KM, there was a pro-missionary article. [BARF ALERT] A young brother was praised because he "sought to put Kingdom interests first by entering the full-time ministry rather than pursuing higher education in preperation for a secular career." The pre-'92 thinking is back with a vengeance. So I've rambled a bit but here's the bottom line: being happy is all about your choices...where you live, whom you date or whom you have chosen to marry, what you choose to do with your time, what you choose to do to your body. If you can't make good choices, then you're right, money isn't going to help you one bit. But it's hard to be happy when you're stuck at a low-paying job and you know you could've done better...and you don't have enough to feel secure or pay the bills. Mazlow's hierarchy man...you can't be truly fulfilled if your basic needs aren't met.
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NotBlind
The last thing the WTS wants around is people who can think for themselves. They desperately want (and need) people who need others to think for them. The average rank-and-file JW in 2006 is good at running to the elders for permission/advice as to whether a certain movie, sport, situation, or activity is 'appropriate'.
Thanks to the aliteracy common even in JW households, fewer JW's than ever know how to use their own WT Library CD-ROM or Index.
One benefit of a college education, often overlooked by many, is the experience one gains in locating information in a library, internet search engine, or a scholarly journal. Most JW's do not know how to locate information, even on their own WT Library CD-ROM. When an individual learns how to locate information, especially if that information is found on an internet discussion board, such as, oh, I don't know, www.jehovahs-witness.com or www.reexamine.org, the repercussions are dangerous for a group such as the JW's where information is so tightly controlled.
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under_believer
SirNose, great post.
College isn't about money. I mean, it CAN be about money, and some people try to make it about that, but that's a disingenuous argument that colleges and high school guidance counselors make to convince people to go.
College is about learning. About reading. About expanding your mind. About developing socially. About living on your own. About, supremely, learning how to think. Learning to be a whole person. It's about many things--money and a career being one of the less important.
The thing is, the focus on College = Money is also valid. As others have pointed out, you need a certain amount of money to be happy. You don't need to be rich, or even middle class--but you need to be able to cover your needs. But this truth, that college does mean more money, usually, also allows the Society to demonize the choice to go to college as a choice for materialism. It's not exactly a strawman argument, but it's damn close.
The illustration I like to use is this: Is reading about money? Do you learn to read to make more money? Well, no. Reading is a basic tool of life. Not being able to read is a huge handicap. Reading enriches you, prods your imagination, and makes life better. You will also probably make more money if you can read, and making more money is one reason an illiterate person should learn to read; but if the Society started claiming that learning to read was the same as materialism and should be put off for the New Order, people would think they were nuts.
It's the same with college. -
daystar
Very good thread, but at the same time there is a lot of research that proves that above a certain minimum standard of living, earning more money has absolutely no effect on ones level of happiness. In fact, above a certain point, the more money one has, the more unhappy they are. Sure, the JW's are wrong to denounce higher education, but at the same time the western world has been deluded into thinking that college degrees and higher salaries will in themselves make you happy and fulfilled. More and more people are wising up to the working myth and the shallow promises of materialism, without having to be JWs or Christians.
The next time you speak with Bill Gates, ask him if he'd be happier a gazillionare or poor.
I mean, this is ridiculous. Let's see... living in a shack, having to scrape to get by, vs. having enough money to take a nice cruise once in a while, not having to worry about lack of money so much, being able to travel the world...
More and more people are wising up to the working myth and the shallow promises of materialism, without having to be JWs or Christians.
Um, if you say so. Argumentum ad populum. Then how come there are more millionaires today in the states than ever before in history. I'd say more and more people are wising up to the shallow promises of an afterlife.
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sir82
Very good thread, but at the same time there is a lot of research that proves that above a certain minimum standard of living, earning more money has absolutely no effect on ones level of happiness. In fact, above a certain point, the more money one has, the more unhappy they are. Sure, the JW's are wrong to denounce higher education, but at the same time the western world has been deluded into thinking that college degrees and higher salaries will in themselves make you happy and fulfilled. More and more people are wising up to the working myth and the shallow promises of materialism, without having to be JWs or Christians.
Guess it's my turn to jump all over this comment...
Actually, I am in basic agreement with your point - one's level of happiness does not necessarily depend on one's income.
But the WT demonizes college with a very broad brush. In their viewpoint (reiterated now at every assembly and convention, and frequently in the literature) the only reason that someone goes to college is because they are materialistic. Becuase they want to earn "a ton of money". By constantly drumming that tune into JWs heads, they make it look like anyopne who chooses to go to a university is materialistic, greedy, and "spiritually weak".
Of course, it is an utter lie that the only reason that people get a higher education is to earn more money.
If that were true, I'd never fly in an airplane, or submit to surgery, or do anything else where I need to depend on the expertise of others (if "earning more money" is the sole, or even the primary, reason one becomes a doctor, I certainly would not want to be treated by him).
And, if that were true, why is it that there are thousands of persons pursuing a university degree to become an elementary school teacher, or a social worker, or a speech therapist, or...? You're certainly not going to rich doing that!
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zagor
* High School dropouts: $19,169
* High School graduates: $28,654
* College Grads (Bachelor's Degree): $51,554
* Advanced College Grads (Master's or higher): $78,093yup, that would be about right. Though with right college degree, particularly, science, engineering and advanced management degrees you can multiply that last figure at least with 2 and that is if you're working for a company, not if you own one, which should be the aim of everyone smart enough to manage it. We'd have many more rich people than we do today.