THE UNSEEN MAGIC and THE MYSTERY of the MUNDANE (page 5)

Terry

Wow! I hope to buy you beer someday.

I hope I drink it.....soon!

Terry

Challenging analogy, there, Terry. I was wondering, do you also consider g ames like keep-away and hide-and-seek, story-telling, and fairy tales to be damaging?

I once broached this subject and was amazed how I was pilloried!

I never took such abuse as when I spoke out against filling impressionable children's minds with fairy tales WITHOUT MAKING IT VERY CLEAR IT WAS FICTION.

Safeguarding our consciousness is vital to a healthy rational process.

I'll say no more than that without putting on a suit of armor.

My take on your worldview, Terry, is that people must be fully logical to be sane. There's a fundamental flaw in that premise which, in my opinion, leads you to extremes at times. Fantasy and word-games is a pleasurable and natural part of our development. Take those away, and we are closer to machines than human.

Take the game, keep-away, understood instinctively by dogs and young children. The dog races slightly out of reach, daring you to touch him. But he makes sure he is not quite far enough that you CAN'T catch him. If you are having trouble keeping up, he races closer.

The premise of the game is not to keep from getting caught. If so, the dog would race to the horizon. The premise of the game is to maximize pleasure for both chas-er and chas-ee by making it mildly challenging for both..

I suggest that Magic, also, is pleasurable for both entertainer and audience. There is an implicit agreement that both will be challenged by the experience. I suggest that the audience is NOT duped, because they are willing participants in the game.

That's not to say that deception and sleight-of-hand is never used for evil gain. It is. And when it is, the culprit deserves to be called out.

I developed some of these ideas from the book, Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. The author is not kind to religion, but for diffferent reasons than you. The author suggests that religion strangles the magic from daily life.

Terry

My take on your worldview, Terry, is that people must be fully logical to be sane. There's a fundamental flaw in that premise which, in my opinion, leads you to extremes at times. Fantasy and word-games is a pleasurable and natural part of our development. Take those away, and we are closer to machines than human.

I notice that your argument is developed logically!

The Dragon

When a child sees their father spank or beat on a younger sibling for his judgement of "wrongdoing"....will the older look at this way of handling things and be beaten if he tries to imitate it and punish his sibling for committing what he/she considers "wrongdoing" in their judgement?

Do you want your children judging and punishing one another in your absence?

Ask yourself that sometime....

I guess it would depend on what kind of children you want to raise?

jgnat

Well, of course, Terry. When in Rome...

Terry

When a child sees their father spank or beat on a younger sibling for his judgement of "wrongdoing"....will the older look at this way of handling things and be beaten if he tries to imitate it and punish his sibling for committing what he/she considers "wrongdoing" in their judgement?
Do you want your children judging and punishing one another in your absence?

I'm the father of seven kids. Yeah, I know!

Over the course of many years I tried various models of child-rearing.

The worst was the Jehovah's Witness and bible based theory. It stunk on ice.

My last three kids were reared without spanking. There were always clear consequences (time-outs, removal of privileges, etc.) for bad behavior. The important thing is consistency and a united front among parents.

A loving disicipline goes a long way. The goal is allow the child to see that "good" behavior is to their own benefit and not merely an arbitrary standard of performance.

Kids can't punish kids. They shouldn't be snitches either. A family is a microcosm of society at large. You work better as a unit when you are on each other's side. The child who sees and experiences the benefits of the better behavior enjoys the rewards. It is, in the end, a practical matter of overcoming obstacles.

Now that I've addressed these points might I ask what this has to do with the topic at hand???

sinis

Dragon:

If a bear shits in the woods and no one is there to see it, did he really shit?

AuldSoul

Terry: I notice that your argument is developed logically!

I also noticed that. I think it very cool how she has an appreciation for logic, emotion, studiousness, and whimsy.

That way she doesn't ever risk becoming an intolerable boor, whose aloof austerity puts out of reach the very betterment of humanity sought; a risk I live with every day of my life (and have not succeeded avoiding, according to some).

jwfacts

Terry,

Here is a great piece of magic that i was just emailed, totally amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB-wUgnyGv0

Will you tell me how they did it?

THE UNSEEN MAGIC and THE MYSTERY of the MUNDANE

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