Questions for believers in God

by KW13 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • gordon d
    gordon d

    OK.. perhaps the parental analogy missed it's mark...

    That partcular one tries to limit God to operating on the value of a human's lifespan with the limitations that he doesn't have....I think we all know just how important one of us is in the grand scheme of things!

    Perhaps this will convey the thought better:

    If God decided to create a being, with total free will but a being that was highly enough developed to be worthy of His level of love... he might want to make this being totally unique in that it had to be purifyed to it's highest form. Solution:

    Treat it like raw gold:

    Put it into a furnace so hot that it was not even recognizable. All of the impuities would become seperated from the pure gold.

    Did you handle it while it was in the furnace? No, you stepped back and let the fire do it's work.

    Once it was complete, you knock off the slag and are left with something pure and precious.

    Do you need the furnace anymore? No, but you do need a new place to keep this perfect creation.

    Do you keep the slag? No... it's of no use.

    The Gold is now so pure that it will last forever... The seemingly cruel, destructive treatment was meant for it's good and the good of it's creator.

  • Abandoned
    Abandoned

    The Gold is now so pure that it will last forever... The seemingly cruel, destructive treatment was meant for it's good and the good of it's creator.

    If you're the all-powerful creator, why do you need the furnace? Why not just create the gold?

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    If God decided to create a being, with total free will but a being that was highly enough developed to be worthy of His level of love... he might want to make this being totally unique in that it had to be purifyed to it's highest form. Solution:

    Treat it like raw gold:

    Put it into a furnace so hot that it was not even recognizable. All of the impuities would become seperated from the pure gold.

    Did you handle it while it was in the furnace? No, you stepped back and let the fire do it's work.

    Once it was complete, you knock off the slag and are left with something pure and precious.

    Do you need the furnace anymore? No, but you do need a new place to keep this perfect creation.

    Do you keep the slag? No... it's of no use.

    The Gold is now so pure that it will last forever... The seemingly cruel, destructive treatment was meant for it's good and the good of it's creator.

    God works in wonderful (i.e. absurdly stupid) ways.

  • gordon d
    gordon d

    Sometime you have to break a few eggs when you make a cake!

    He doesn't have to use pressure/heat to make all things... squids were probably pretty easy, angels (no physical bodies)... pretty easy, chickens... pretty easy... BUT a Perfect HUMAN???? That's gonna take some effort!

    Anyone who doesn't like the stuff that he's made or how he's made it is more than welcome to go make their own.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Gordon

    more than welcome to go make their own

    People have been making people since there were people. There is no evidence that god made any. If you have some, present it.

    S

  • bernadette
    bernadette

    Hi

    In true jw mode (hard to get rid of). At least using a different bible

    Then consider, if he's such a 'loving' God - where is he now? why are we paying for adam and eves mistake? where is the forgiveness?Consider an answer from the message bible (biblegateway)

    6-18 God makes everything come out right;
    he puts victims back on their feet.
    He showed Moses how he went about his work,
    opened up his plans to all Israel.
    God is sheer mercy and grace;
    not easily angered, he's rich in love.
    He doesn't endlessly nag and scold,
    nor hold grudges forever.
    He doesn't treat us as our sins deserve,
    nor pay us back in full for our wrongs.
    As high as heaven is over the earth,
    so strong is his love to those who fear him.
    And as far as sunrise is from sunset,
    he has separated us from our sins.
    As parents feel for their children,
    God feels for those who fear him.
    He knows us inside and out,
    keeps in mind that we're made of mud.
    Men and women don't live very long;
    like wildflowers they spring up and blossom,
    But a storm snuffs them out just as quickly,
    leaving nothing to show they were here.
    God's love, though, is ever and always,
    eternally present to all who fear him,
    Making everything right for them and their children

  • oldflame
    oldflame
    where is the forgiveness?

    You will find your forgiveness at the cross........

  • vitty
    vitty

    Starving children in Africa for instance. They live short miserable lives. yet they are maybe the lucky ones are they not?

    They don't have to endure a world full of hate and war as we do. They live a short life then go to God. I'd say thats mercy

    I really dont know how to answer this

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I'm going to assume this isn't just a windup and dig a believers, and respond accordingly. Please don't disappoint me, Karl...

    What God do 'we' believe in?

    As Carmel states, you'll find quite a variety of belief on the world scene, not just the form we were raised with as JWs. IMHO God is "in" everything as well as transcending everything. What happens to us happens to Him.

    Firstly we are directed away from questioning just how God came into existance - why?

    There's simply no answer because we have not yet found one. The assumption is that He precedes us, if He's our creator. All we see in the world appears to have a beginning, and yet might that not be a faulty premise? Things change from one form to another, yet are never actually destroyed, e.g. when you burn something you find light and heat released.

    Then consider, if he's such a 'loving' God - where is he now? why are we paying for adam and eves mistake? where is the forgiveness?

    Are you really reading the whole of human history on the basis of a single ancient short story? If you suspect the story to be faulty then why judge God on the basis of it?

    People say they were 'saved' and had a very near miss with death "oh i walked away from a car accident, it was a miracle" yet on the same day 10 people (or a lot more depending where and what disaster) die.

    This is a very subjective analysis, and as humans we're really good at that. To you it was important, to someone else it was meaningless, aside from being able to empathise with your feelings. The important thing is surely that it was important to YOU, part of YOUR experience. We all have such occurances, but it seems we are so busy examining the "journey" of others that we forget to look in wonder at our own. Covetousness is a terrible thing.

    If he created Adam and Eve the way he did, this being the God that knows all, surely as the designer and creator he could see they would sin!?!! surely he's not so short sighted? prior to them sinning we believe they were normal human beings that knew right and wrong, but they only knew this after eating from the tree in the garden.

    Again, your theory is based on an ancient short story. Did "they" even write it?

    before they ate, they weren't aware of their nakedness YET GOD WAS - i dont really like the idea of being nieve and in a way, shielded from such simple things.

    I don't like a lot of things, but they are real, e.g. being spied on by CCTV. Naivety come with the territory, and often doesn't improve significantly with age. We can attempt to limit it through education and experience, but there's a perverse little part of us that actually enjoys retaining a little of it, e.g. magic shows

    How can a just God sit in heaven, watching the mess down here and not intervene? (or as some believe, he intervenes in some situations while CHOOSING not to get involved in others).

    So God is some kind of anthropomorphised super-"human" who lollygags around on clouds all day, in your mind? Try another model, and see if the results are the same.

    If Christians aren't about war, then look at the israelites and the battles they fought with GODS BACKING...

    Quick history lesson for you. When was the name "Christian" first used? Before or after all those wars? Further, where do you find that they had God's backing? History is written by the victors...

    If he can forgive then why not forgive Satan? Maybe he has...

    Again, are you looking to your own experience, or looking wistfully at the experience of someone you've heard of called "Satan"? Why all the emphasis on someone that you've never met? Let's make it a little more pertinent - was Hitler forgiven? If you don't know the answer to that, then on what basis do you expect to know about "Satan"?

    If the bible is his inspired work, then how come men compiled the books we have? These decisions weren't by God at all! They chose what they thought was suitable.

    Very probably, though there's every reason to believe that God could have had a hand in it if He so wished. More importantly, to my way of thinking, what kind of effect does it have in YOUR personal experience? Do the stories you read there have a bearing on your life, or teach you something about human nature, or a framework or mental map for relating to the world around about you? IMHO it does all of that, but right now you appear to be attempting to use a spoon as a screwdriver, with the resultant sore fingers... Just my 2p

  • KW13
    KW13

    there are a lot of reply's, (no i am serious Ross - i appreciate your time mate) i'm just gonna read through all of 'em and maybe do a reply later when i got time.

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