Using Star Moore's reasoning that a generation is 20 years, it will still account for Jesus' words that the "generation" of his era would still exist at Jerusalem's destruction in 70 CE. But the Society has experienced at least five generations without any sign that "all these things will take place." Each of those generations of JWs were assured they were the ones that Jesus spoke of... The older generations grew old and died without the fulfillment. It is little wonder that the Watchtower decided to reinterpret Jesus' words.
"This Generation"
by Jeffro 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OnTheWayOut
This was input by TD on a post months ago:
Pre 1995 - the "generation" refers to individuals who were alive in 1914. The generation of 1914 would not pass away before the end of the system of things. This meant you would expect the end within 100 years of 1914, give or take.
Post 1995 - the "generation " refers to individuals around at the time of christ's presence. These individuals being independant of 1914 or any other date. The end of the system of things is therefore no longer dependant on 1914.
The most amazing thing to me is that Witnesses don't even seem to have the mental steam to define their terms and paraphrase the statement to see if the post 1995 definitions will evaluate to anything intelligible.
For example, Pre 1995:
This Generation = Individuals alive in 1914
Pass Away = Die of old age
All these things = The entire sign including Armageddon
Put it all together and you get something like this:
"Those alive in 1914 will not all die of old age until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
However Post 1995:
This Generation = People contemporary with the sign who take no note
Pass Away = Destruction by God at Armageddon
All these things = The entire sign including Armageddon
Put this all together and you get something like this:
"Those contemporary with the sign who take no note will not be detroyed by God at Armageddon until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
--which is an obvious tautology. Of course no one will be destroyed at Armageddon until Armageddon occurs. The JW's have reduced the statement to a semantic nil while at the same time, patting themselves on the back for their "Clearer understanding."
Try it get a JW to perform this simple exercise and see just how "Clear" their understanding is.
THIS LOGIC WAS OUTSTANDING:
I wrote it simplified in my personal notes-"Those contemporary with the sign who take no note will not be detroyed by God at Armageddon until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
This can be simplified to say:
There will be people alive in the last days up until Armageddon. OR People will not be destroyed at Armageddon until Armageddon. (Totally meaningless)
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BCZAR2ME
It seems the 1914 date is not going away anytime soon. The January 1, 2007 2nd study article "The First Resurrection"-Now Under Way! reinforces the 1914 and 1935 dates.
bczar
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heathen
"Those contemporary with the sign who take no note will not be detroyed by God at Armageddon until the entire sign is fulfilled and Armageddon occurs."
interesting concept there . My belief is that armageddon is an ivisible spriritual war that has been going on since the end of gentile times and the reestablishment of pure worship , possibly 1914 but I don't go so far as to say the 7 times of Daniel are actually to be multiplied by 360 since that whole prophetic year calander of the j-dubs is not undisputable but you can't deny the turmoil of WW1 , the war to end all wars and then the league of nations that puts itself in place of the kingdom of the heavens by proclaiming it will bring peace and security. I think we are all familiar with the j-dub doctrine on that. If you compare Luke 21 with Mathew 24 you can get a better idea of the reasoning .I am still looking for that pure worship that's supposed to be manifest at this time .IMO The WTBTS has been led by the evil slave . They continue to beat people up over lack of funds and then when people try to work harder to earn money they complain about lack of meeting attendance . The church has tried to implement a celebate rule so people can spend more time raising money for the church but obviously failed . I wasn't in the org. but know they are not real thrilled to see people get married and tied down with children. I think everybody is familiar with the short comings and abuse from the cult.
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ocsrf
What bothered me was how efficient I had become in explaining this generation. I enjoyed flipping back enforth in the scriptures highlighting all those features of the sign that indicated that this generation was the sameone spoken of in the bible. So when that night came that they change this in 1995, I didn't quit but they lost me as a blind follower, I at that point started to question, but, it was not till the internet and sites like this, that I realized I was not alone in my reaction to this change. I felt that all those hours spent walking in the hot sun in the summer and cold of winter were all wasted. I am glad that I never had become a full time pioneer or I would have been even more upset for sure.
OC
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Jeffro
heathen:
My belief is that armageddon is an ivisible spriritual war
Not terribly likely, and awfully convenient.
that has been going on since the end of gentile times and the reestablishment of pure worship , possibly 1914
The 'Gentile Times', taken from Luke 21:24 ignores the original language of the text, which cannot validly apply the 'appointed times of the nations' to any period prior to 70AD, as verses 20-24 indicate a progression of events that "will" occur in the future, not events that began in 607. The literal text of verse 24 says: "and they will fall to mouth of sword and they will be led captive into the nations all, and Jerusaldm will be being trampled by nations, until what should be fulfilled and will be appointed times of nations."
but I don't go so far as to say the 7 times of Daniel are actually to be multiplied by 360
The 'times' as used by Daniel do not even necessarily mean 'years', but could have referred to 'seasons', 'months', or some other period. There is no basis to multiply those 7 years ('times') by years of 360 days. Particularly in view of the JWs not using the same 'rule' for the others 'times' Daniel mentioned.
since that whole prophetic year calander of the j-dubs is not undisputable but you can't deny the turmoil of WW1,
The 'turmoil of WW1' is irrelevant. The JW prophecy was supposed to be fulfilled in October of 1914. Nothing happened.
the war to end all wars and then the league of nations that puts itself in place of the kingdom of the heavens by proclaiming it will bring peace and security. I think we are all familiar with the j-dub doctrine on that.
It was not rocket science to imagine that governments might set up some kind international body to try to prevent international wars after two international wars. As for 'putting itself in place of the kingdom of the heavans', that statement has no real basis.
If you compare Luke 21 with Mathew 24 you can get a better idea of the reasoning .
Those passages refer to events surrounding 70AD. While it is possible to imagine parallels with just about any period in history, there is no real reason to apply them to the present.
I am still looking for that pure worship that's supposed to be manifest at this time .
It's most likely the wrong time, but no harm in looking.
IMO The WTBTS has been led by the evil slave .
More likely just another religion of misguided men.
They continue to beat people up over lack of funds and then when people try to work harder to earn money they complain about lack of meeting attendance . The church has tried to implement a celebate rule so people can spend more time raising money for the church but obviously failed . I wasn't in the org. but know they are not real thrilled to see people get married and tied down with children.
An interesting perspective. I wouldn't say that there is any specific discouragement of marriage in the organization these days, though there does seem to remain an implied view that having children 'so close to the end' isn't wise. And the points about money seem to hit the nail on the head, though there are other religions that solicit funds from members more actively.
I think everybody is familiar with the short comings and abuse from the cult.
Yep. While they are not the most harmful group in the world by a long shot, they certainly aren't the most beneficial either.
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A Paduan
They needed a new meaning that still suited their 'unique' idea of the "things that will take place"
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heathen
Well fine jeffro if you don't see things like that , nobody is trying to recruit you for any cult . I don't think it's the wrong time for the end of the world ,in fact believe it's very close to that time . At least I'm not as blind as most religionists when they say the gentile time concluded when Israel became a nation again in 1948 . I think the Jerusalem mentioned in Luke is the center for pure worship and not the nation of Israel .Anyway I digress .
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Jeffro
Well fine jeffro if you don't see things like that , nobody is trying to recruit you for any cult . I don't think it's the wrong time for the end of the world ,in fact believe it's very close to that time .
Indeed. If someone believes that 'the end is nigh', then they are welcome to believe so. But unless they have facts to back it up, or if their supposed 'facts' are built on lies and conjecture (like '1914'), I'm not going to believe them.
At least I'm not as blind as most religionists when they say the gentile time concluded when Israel became a nation again in 1948 .
I don't subscribe to that (1948) theory either. However, at least something occurred then that might at least be seen as relevant. Nothing at all of significance happened in October of 1914 (the alleged fulfilment). Not to mention the fact that nothing of significance happened in 607 either. (Still waiting for 'scholar's' amazing 'proof' of the Jews returning in 537BC too, but that's another issue.)
I think the Jerusalem mentioned in Luke is the center for pure worship and not the nation of Israel .
I don't think there is any reason to believe that Luke chapter 21 refers to anything other than Jerusalem in the first century.
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free2beme
The whole thing was nonsense anyway. As the story, that is referred too, was Jesus telling "those people" and not this modern generation, that they themselves would be alive when Jerusalem fell. Anything beyond that, is just more Bible manipulation.