They Came back (page 2)

Theophilus

I don't expect to receive answers to my questions. They are simply asked to get a starting place. The "Trinity" pamphlet is perhaps the clearest, most blatant deception I have ever read! If the seed is planted, I'll be happy.
I would absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE other techniques to try.
I want to approach this with compassion and show the my love for them. I've been praying like crazy over this and I am trusting God for the result.

RedhorseWoman

All we can do is hope. I know that in my own case, I noticed discrepancies and inequities long before I ever left. I spent years blaming myself for not being a good enough Witness so that I could adequately dismiss these "bad" thoughts.

Any seeds planted will most likely lay dormant for years. However, once a JW begin to actually think, the progression to freedom is inevitable.

Frenchy

Theo: Path is right. The business with the NWT will disposed of quite easily. The references you asked for will be put on a back burner for a while. I would be careful about how I mention the Society. You use of the letters WTBS in your e-mail could raise warning flags especially if they show this around any. You best avenue is to feign ignorance of the WTS. Refer to them as ‘your headquarters’ or ‘the head of your church.’ That sounds more ignorant that to refer to them as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. The moment that they see or feel the slightest presence of the hook, they are gone.
Let them present their message. Feel them out. Are they knowledgeable? It’s important to note that today, in the United States, witnesses meet with little opposition at the door. Their greatest obstacle is apathy. As a result a lot of the younger ones have NEVER had to defend even their most basic doctrines. With the older ones, however, that’s a different story. We cut our teeth on debating the Trinity and Hellfire and immortality of the soul doctrines. We’ve heard every side and every angle and have a counter measure for each. So, consider your audience. Are they young and inexperienced or are they old and ‘street wise’? This will determine your approach. Let them talk for now in order for you to gather fuel for YOUR approach. Remember you are dumb, so how is it that you know all this stuff about witnesses??? Hmmmm???
I repeat what I said earlier. You will not shake them on doctrine. Even if you win the discussion, they will assume that it was some error or omission on their part. They are incapable of looking at the issue objectively at this point in their lives. You have to attack the root that is feeding the plant. You will have to help them to see that their source is not what it says it is and this is difficult to do. It will take time and patience on your part. That is where so many fail. They are so concerned in lashing out at the witnesses and being vindicated in their own stance that in the process they drive away someone who could possibly have been helped.
You might try this if you feel comfortable with it. After a couple of visits and they begin to feel more comfortable in your presence you might say something like this: “You know I was once associated with a church where the preacher was a very forceful person. Man, that guy could really preach a good sermon, very sincere, you know what I mean? (heads are nodding) After I was there just a short while, however, I noticed that he sometimes he would contradict himself. (smiles and heads nodding) I mean one time he said something, oh, I forget exactly what it was, but just a couple of weeks later he said something quite different. When I approached him and asked him about it he just smiled kinda’ stupid like and said that the Lord had corrected him on it. Can you believe that? I mean does this make sense? (watch carefully for the facial expressions here). What do you think about someone who does that? Sit back and listen, this may take a while depending on who those particular witnesses are. Listen VERY carefully to what they say and stop them whenever you need to get some clarification. Let them state their position very clearly on this. Do you see where I’m going with this??

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

RedhorseWoman

Frenchy, my dear, you are GOOD.....I mean REALLY, REALLY good!!

Frenchy

Thank you, sweetie.

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

Theophilus

Great stuff. I see where you are headed. I realyy don't want to scare them off. I want to help. I think you are right. I'll try to be gentle. Here was my thinking. I want to know from them in their own words, "why should I believe that the society is right?" what evidence is there that the society has truth? That sort of thing. I think that should be the first thing anybody would ask about an organization before joining it. Thanks so much for these beautiful gems. Play dumb!!! that's great!
The guys I'm talking with are probably most definitely street wise. At least in their 40's. I have no idea how long they've been with the society or how they got involved. I think I'll ask them about themselves when I meet with them. I need to get to know these guys and be friendly. I do want to love them as people rather than just as the faceless, nameless lost. That's really my desire.
Thanks again. I'd love to hear any other ideas and such.

Pathofthorns

If you are in a cold climate, ask to see any "movies" they have about their religion. Give them hot chocolate and take the magazines. Don't agree to a Bible study.

You will be "easy time" on those cold mornings and they will be more than happy to visit you. Plus you can always stop the video and ask questions.

The one you want to see is Jehovah's Witnesses- the Organization behind the Name.

Its interesting that you mention they are in their 40's. You will find the younger they are, the more ignorant they are, but they still believe all the same. The older they are, the more knowledgable, the more they can defend, but also they will walk away when pressed because they have invested too much time in this to be proven wrong.

I still think however noble your efforts are, you have a losing battle. I'm sorry to be a pessimist, but i believe at best you are simply in for a learning experience. And your desire to learn and understand and help is most commendable and facinating.

Thanks for coming here.

Path

Pathofthorns

(and one more thing theo)

what it all boils down to is this:

"Where else are we going to go?"

For a JW there is no life outside of the WT. There is no family, no friends.

(at least that is what they believe)

Path

Simon

No, I don't think it's a loosing battle. You may not see any immediate effect but things that you say and make them aware of can make them think and change possibly in the future.
This happened to me - somone pointed a few things out about the WT teachings that I didn't know about and just gave me a few WT references to lookup. I rubbished it at first but when I realised it was true it made me question other things too.
Don't give up!

Frenchy

Amen to Simon's reply.

-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

They Came back

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