Where else are you going to go?

by openminded 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Black Man

  Waiting:

  Well spoken. Actually, there are a few peeps at Bethel that have arrived to that very same conclusion that you have expressed.
• 

  Stacey

  I hate that statement... "but where else can you go". It makes me so mad! As a JW things are black and white only. There is no other choice. It's the WTBTS or it's Satan. Fine, there is no other religion to replace the jws. WHY DOES A PERSON NEED TO LEAVE to another religion?!?? It's a security blanket. If they dont have an organization to tell them how to do it they are paralyzed.

  I commend ex-jws finding their own path. I commend anyone who forges their own way. I commend the one who says they dont have THE answer to lifes eternal questions. I commend the one who does not abide by any dogma.

  All I know is that I left the JWs for freedom of thought. I guess that is what replaced the religion for me. And I love that I can change my ideas with each new experience in my life.

  Just blabbing...
  Stacey
• 

  waiting

  Howdy Black Man,

  I've been seeing your posts show up - welcome to our humble abode....well, humility isn't our greatest quality - but that's beside the point. Welcome.

  As for the Bethel peeps - what conclusion have they arrived at - that Jesus is to whom we should go? Or, that the WTBTS is an anti-christ?
  Or both?

  Nice to meet you.

  waiting
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I'm going to Disneyland!
• 

  JeffT

  I put the following on another board awhile back. It sums up how a feel about this issue. For the WTBS to apply to itself something that Jesus said about himself is the height of arrogance.

  The nature and unity of the Church.

  I was well into what I thought would be the first of my essays when I realized that there was another issue I had to address first. The Watchtower viewpoint contains a badly flawed understanding of the nature and role of the church, and holds assumptions about the mainstream churches that are factually wrong.

  The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society claims that all references to the church in the Bible, including allegorical ones, apply to themselves, and even more specifically to an anointed group of 144,000. As anyone who as spent any time reading JW literature can attest, references to “God’s Organization” are endless. One cannot understand the bible without “God’s Organization.” One cannot be spiritually or morally clean without “God’s Organization.” It is up to “God’s Organization” to insure the cleanliness of the Christian Congregation. All correct doctrine comes from “God’s Organization.” Everything outside “God’s Organization” is false religion, immorality, Satan worship, etc.

  It is a common assumption among JW’s that the churches of Christendom are in total disarray and disunity. References to Christian disunity are frequently made in Watchtower publications. On numerous occasions I heard public speakers within the Watchtower organization make references to the churches fighting with each other over which one of them was the true religion. I remember one in particular that said if you looked up churches in the phone book you’d find pages and pages of all different kinds of churches, but there was only one kind of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is also axiomatic among witnesses to talk about how the members of “Christendom’s” churches fight each other in wars. This is taken as proof that they hate each other.

  When I left the Watchtower I discovered what I had understood on these matters was plain wrong.

  The Church is the worldwide body of all believers. It has been called “the blessed company of all faithful people.” {Zondervan Pictoral Encyclopedia of the Bible, Zondervan Corp. 1975 vol. 1 p 848} It is clear that in the early days of the church one became a member of the church by accepting Christ through a simple declaration of faith, “Jesus is Lord,” 1 Cor. 12:3. This declaration was sufficient to qualify one for water baptism. Note that one becomes a member of the church through the declaration of faith, baptism was simply a public expression of that membership.

  This contrasts very sharply with the Watchtower’s six month home bible study program, really an indoctrination into Watchtower theology. When I became a witness one had to pass an eighty question test in order to be baptized. To the best of my knowledge something like this still exists. No where in the Bible do I find such a requirement.

  The Watchtower’s massive and rigid organizational structure is not found in the Bible, indeed such an “Organization” would have been impossible in the first century. Today, all policy, procedure, doctrine and disciplinary matters have to be cleared through the Watchtower Society’s bureaucracy in Brooklyn, NY.

  But the Christian community doesn’t think that way. If you’ve made a public confession of faith, you’re a Christian. You aren’t believing the wrong things if you haven’t read last weeks Watchtower yet. Most churches offer a short course on the basics beliefs of The Church, once you’ve done that you have most of what you need. Deeper study increases your knowledge of God, but it isn’t a requirement of salvation, and failure to keep up with every exact point won’t get you thrown out of church. In fact there is a diversity of thought on many subjects, but only on fine points not those that directly effect one’s salvation.

  The Church, as all Christians know it, is much more unified than Witnesses believe. Among believers there is widespread agreement on the basic tenants of the Christian faith. There is a general acceptance that other professing Christians are spiritual siblings, even if they go to a different church. As a friend once put it to me “I can worship with anybody that acknowledges Jesus as Lord.”

  The discovery that the Christian churches regarded themselves as unified as the Body of Christ hit me like an epiphany one day while I was doing some research shortly before we left the witnesses. I went home from a trip to the library and told my wife “It’s like all of the churches agree on all of the main points. They aren’t fighting each other, they are united on the things that really count.” This erased one of my biggest problems – and one that I think is common to those that leave the Watchtower but want to stay spiritual - we’ve all been taught that you have to find the one true church. The search becomes much easier when you’re not looking for a needle in haystack.

  Unity does not require uniformity.
• 

  Tina

  Hi Stacey!
  I couldn't agree more! The only ones who profess to have the absolute answers are religionists. We of course, as free thinkers take it as a given that as new research,data info comes to the fore that we will check this out. If verifiable and valid we do make changes on our thinking or adapt our worldviews accordingly. This is a process of growing and expanding on what we previously knew. We don't profess to have all the answers. Personally I am confident that more and more questions WILL be answered as technology,the sciences and humanities expand grow and adapt.
  This way of life cannot compare to the stagnation,medieval type thinking that religion has kept far too many stuck in. But that is becuase it works by preying on emotions,rather than using reason.
  I say go out into the world learn, learn,educate oneself,,,open your eyes and minds,it's all out there. Anyway,just my dos centavos.T

  Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
• 

  Tina

  well jeff,if they don't profess jesus as lord or make no profession to any type of christianity, are they still your brothers and sisters?

  Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
• 

  JeffT

  Yes. I think all of us are brothers and sisters within the family of man. I'm not so arrogant to think that it is my way or the highway.

  I was speaking strictly of a unity of belief within the Christian faith. My point, which may not have been as clear as I wanted was this: The Watchtower is fond of talking about all the diversity of groups within "Christendom" as an indication of disunity. They are totally off the mark on this.
• 

  Pathofthorns

  Perhaps the most frustrating question asked endlessly by Witnesses reasoning with someone with 'doubts'. Also a trick question because any answer is considered apostasy due to the fact you are advocating some other path than 'God's channel'.

  I also believe if the person is not ready to leave, any answer will not be effective. Many though, struggle with this question at the point when they are convinced the religion is false, but are stalling and uncertain as to when and how to make that final exit.

  Someone once made a good comment on H20 or here, to the effect that if you were walking on a set of train tracks and a train was coming, would you worry about 'where you were going to go' or would u just get off the tracks?

  Many people are simply overwhelmed by the concept of freedom. They think they will just become these horrible individuals if there is not something placing restraints upon them. These individuals often become the prey of fundamental Christians who enslave these ones once again, all because they felt they needed to 'go' somewhere.

  Freedom is not something a person needs to fear. It is the greatest feeling to be able to think and learn and explore so many different things and ideas when u stop worrying about 'where am i going to go'.

  Path