Is there any literature that speaks of babies dying in "A" (page 2)

VanillaMocha73

Of course, asking this question would be considered foolish..
*** w98 8/15 p. 20 pars. 18-19 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***

With complete confidence in Jehovah’s righteousness, we need not worry about finding answers to questions like: ‘How will babies and small children be judged? Might it be that a large number of people will not yet have been reached with the good news when Armageddon arrives? What about the mentally ill? What about . . . ?’ Granted, at present we may not know how Jehovah will resolve these issues. He will do so, however, in a righteous and merciful way. We should never doubt that. In fact, we may be amazed and delighted to observe him resolve them in a way that we never even considered.—Compare Job 42:3; Psalm 78:11-16; 136:4-9; Matthew 15:31; Luke 2:47.

19 Jehovah’s organization does not discourage sincere, timely questions, as some opposers mistakenly claim. (1 Peter 1:10-12) However, the Bible counsels that we avoid foolish, speculative questions
Go figure....

megsmomma

You don't know how much I appreciate your reseaching for me. I wish I had the CD-ROM. Thanks for telling me how you looked it up. I will be able to explain to my dad where this "crap" comes from!

OnTheWayOut

Interesting statement

the Bible counsels that we avoid foolish, speculative questions

They are back-and-forth on our questioning and searching (covering both sides) Notice this:

***
w057/1p.5"Happy AreThose Conscious ofTheirSpiritualNeed"***
By comparing our beliefs with God’s Word, we imitate the people of ancient Beroea, who made sure that Paul’s teachings harmonized with the Scriptures. Rather than criticize the Beroeans, Luke commended them for their attitude. They "received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind," he wrote, "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." (Acts 17:11) In view of the contradictory religious and moral teachings that abound today, it is important that we imitate the example of the noble-minded Beroeans.

***
w024/1pp.4-5SearchforGodWithYourHeartand Mind***
For example, a number of people in the Macedonian city of Beroea "received the word [of God] with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things [explained by Paul and his companions] were so." (Acts 17:11) Two things are worth noting here. First, the Beroeans were eager to listen to God’s Word; second, they did not blindly assume that what they heard was correct, but they referred back to the Scriptures.

Contradict these and many more with previous thoughts like this one:

***
w522/1 p.80 par.12 Jehovah’s Theocratic Organization Today***
Are we to be doubtful and suspicious about each new provision? "He who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah." (Jas. 1:6, 7, NW) Even the Beroeans first received Paul’s preaching "with the greatest readiness of mind", and then went to "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so". (Acts 17:11, NW) This was the first real contact the Beroeans had with Paul’s preaching, yet they received it readily and then studied the Scriptural support for themselves. How much more readily we can receive the slave’s provisions with confidence, since, unlike the Beroeans, we have much past experience with the precious provisions from the slave. After receiving these food supplies we prove their Scripturalness for ourselves to make the message our own, in a spirit of meekness and trustfulness and not combativeness.

This is why I have abandoned argument with JW's entirely (except for family). If I say I am doing as the ancient Beroeans did, they say that those people accepted the truth, but checked with the Bible for themselves- translated as "accept the WTS explanation of anything and accept the scriptures listed on the side as proof that they are right. If you don't see them as right, continue to meditate on the thought that they must be right until you prove that they are right."

Best wishes with any discussion.

VanillaMocha73

Get your CD-ROM download free here:
http://www.watchtower.cc/

juni

It always AMAZES me that this organization has a f***** answer for every question. They are so presumptuous.

They got a special revelation from god that children grow up just like their parents?? Come on.

Makes me sick!

They say:

19 Jehovah’s organization does not discourage sincere, timely questions, as some opposers mistakenly claim. (1 Peter 1:10-12) However, the Bible counsels that we avoid foolish, speculative questions

Oh really??? And they define what is foolish, but they can come out w/some serious foolish s***.

megsmomma

Well....I am going to take the 2 things he told me I was "mistaken" about the society on and show him they themselves say it. It is the only oppertunity I think I have, and it is great that it does not come from their term of "apostate". If he still believes I have no idea what I am talking about and he wants to defend them....so be it. I just can't pass it up to let him know it is not my imagination and I didn't think of this stuff all on my own.

Thanks again to you both!

garybuss

See the child and the doll and the family pet dog going into the Jehovah pit?

The Witness doctrine that says the children are saved by the parent's good work or murdered by God for the parent's choice of the wrong religion is called "family merit".

`

megsmomma

Oh yeah...."Family Merit" I remember reading of that teaching several times in the Bible....NOT! Thanks for the pic Gary!

blondie

Ezekiel 9:4-6 is the lynchpin scripture for babies dying in the big A.

*** w89 1/15 p. 20 How Baptism Can Save Us ***

By the preaching work today, the antitypical ‘man clothed in linen’—the remnant of Jesus’ anointed followers—is ‘marking’ those who will survive the end of this system. In this work the anointed are assisted by their associates, the “other sheep.” (Ezekiel 9:1-7; John 10:16) And what is the “mark”? It is the evidence that we are dedicated to Jehovah and are Jesus’ baptized disciples who have a Christlike personality.

Especially now is it vital that we have the “mark” and retain it, for we are deep into “the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:4) To be saved we must ‘endure to the end’ of our present life or of this system. (Matthew 24:13) Only if we thus remain faithful as witnesses of Jehovah will baptism save us.

*** w87 4/15 pp. 12-13 Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism ***

Should even youths consider baptism? Well, recall that Jehovah told the six armed men in the vision: “Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near.” (Ezekiel 9:6) Of course, children too young to make a dedication would be protected by a parent’s “mark” if that parent is striving to bring the children up to love Jehovah and if they are obediently responding. (1 Corinthians 7:14) Yet, if a child is intelligent enough to make a personal decision and has reached the point where he “knows how to do what is right,” do not presume that he will continue indefinitely under the merit of his parent’s “mark.”—James 4:17.

*** w85 2/1 p. 4 Armageddon—From a God of Love? ***

The burning missiles, fiery showers, and other cataclysmic forces that accompany God’s judgment will strike terror into the hearts of mankind earth wide. In confusion they will turn, each one against his neighbor, as God’s executional forces strike without regard to age or sex. For God instructs them to show no mercy: “Strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination.”—Ezekiel 9:5, 6; Zechariah 14:12, 13.

*** w82 2/15 p. 31 “What Prevents Me from Getting Baptized?” ***

Only those ‘marked’ for salvation will survive into his new order. (Revelation 7:3, 4, 9, 14; Ezekiel 9:2-6)

*** w72 1/15 p. 51 Completing the Work of the King’s Secretary ***

EXECUTIONAL WORK BY THE “SIX MEN” NEARS

9 If we value our earthly lives we will be interested in the value that the “mark” carries with it. We learn to appreciate it as we hear what the King Jehovah says from his throne after he tells the “man clothed with the linen” what to do. The prophet Ezekiel tells us what Jehovah says next in the vision: “And to these others he said in my ears: ‘Pass through the city after him and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near, and from my sanctuary you should start.”’—Ezek. 9:5, 6.

10 Does it sound cruel for Jehovah to say, “Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination”? Yes, but think of the divine mercy revealed in Jehovah’s express command to the symbolic “six men” armed with weapons for smashing, “But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near”! Ah, now, we appreciate that there is protective value in that mark. If, in the coming “great tribulation” upon Christendom and all the rest of this detestable system of things, we desire to be spared by Jehovah’s angelic armies, we will make sincere efforts now to acquire the “mark” for our preservation. We will try to aid others in acquiring the “mark” also, that they may be part of that “great crowd” concerning whom it is prophetically written: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:14) If we appreciate that the marking work is nearing its end and that soon the symbolic “six men” are about to smash the unmarked heads, we will lovingly endeavor to back up the lifesaving work of the King’s secretary.

11 Let us not egotistically presume that we, if with unmarked foreheads, shall be able somehow to go unnoticed by the armed “six men.” When ancient Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E., then, according to the hard facts, little children as well as virgins, women, young men and old men were destroyed. If the little babies did not die from hunger or pestilence or at the hands of the cruel Babylonian soldiers, then they died at the pitiless hands of their own starving mothers, who ate them like cannibals. The prophet Jeremiah, who was a prisoner inside Jerusalem until it fell to the besiegers, tells us so. (Lam. 2:20, 21) What about your children who are too young today to make an intelligent dedication and get baptized in symbol of becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ? They may be too young to get the mark in the forehead personally.

*** w72 1/15 pp. 51-52 Completing the Work of the King’s Secretary ***

12 But are you yourself marked with that mark of dedication and of Christian personality? Are you striving to do as the Christian apostle Paul admonishes a parent to do, namely, bring them up in the discipline and the mental-regulating of Jehovah, and are they obediently responding to your loving efforts? (Eph. 6:1-4) Only if this is the case can you trust that the merit of the “mark” in your own forehead will extend to your minor children and that they will be mercifully spared with you from execution or destruction in the oncoming “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (Matt. 24:21) Now in the short time that remains is the time to do this, before the modern-day “man clothed with the linen” finishes his marking of all worthy foreheads and the symbolic “six men” start using their smashing weapons on all unmarked foreheads that they discover. You parents, do you want your little children to be considered, not “unclean,” but “holy,” because of your marked forehead in Jehovah’s day for executing vengeance? Naturally you should. But do not presume that your children who are intelligent enough to make a decision and personally dedicate themselves to Jehovah through Christ will come under the merit of your marked forehead.

*** w68 2/1 pp. 83-84 Parents’ Moral Responsibility ***

By all the evidences this system of things is hastening to its final confrontation with the God of justice at Armageddon. Parents and children who fail to gain the “mark on their foreheads,” that is, an adequate appreciation of God’s moral standard, are sure to suffer. Parents will be held accountable for their children, and children will suffer for the failure of their parents. The prophet overheard the instruction issued to the angelic executioners: “Do not feel any compassion. Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination. . . . Their way I shall certainly bring upon their own head.”—Ezek. 9:4-6, 10.

*** w65 3/15 p. 176 Our Own Twentieth-Century Generation and the Resurrection ***

The undedicated children of goatish people will not be spared from execution and being sentenced to Gehenna just because they are themselves minor, unresponsible children. This hard fact is illustrated in the orders that Jehovah God issued to his executioners when apostate Jerusalem was to be destroyed. To his executioners he said: “Pass through the city after him [the man who marked the ones to be spared] and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off.” And that is what they did, as illustrated in Jerusalem’s destruction, 607 B.C.E.-Ezek. 9:5-7.

*** w62 8/15 pp. 494-495 Children, Do You Obey Jehovah? ***

We are living in a momentous time in human history, not from the standpoint of the remarkable inventions man has produced, but from the standpoint of Jehovah’s purposes. It is the long-foretold time of the end for the present wicked world. Shortly Jehovah will terminate its existence in the battle of Armageddon and usher in a new world of righteousness. It is a serious time for children as well as adults, because children that do not obey Jehovah will not be among the survivors of that battle. God will not preserve them into his new world merely because they are children. This is evident from the fact that he did not preserve the young children through the flood of Noah’s day just because they were children. It is also shown in the book of Ezekiel that just because you are young is no reason for God’s keeping you alive. Ezekiel wrote: “Slay utterly the old man, the young man and the virgin, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.” (Ezek. 9:6, AS) Your being children who worship and serve Jehovah as he has commanded and who have the mark of protection—ah yes, that will mean preservation and life for you.

*** w62 10/1 p. 582 How to Keep Delinquency Out of Your Home ***

Make it crystal clear that no thief, greedy person or rebellious boy or girl will get into God’s kingdom.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Ps. 37:9; Ezek. 9:6.

*** w60 1/15 p. 55 This Is a Time of Judgment ***

Parents who reject the good news of the Kingdom and who ignore the good principles and wonderful purposes of Jehovah God cannot expect their minor children to survive the execution of divine judgment. Until a child reaches the age where it can be held responsible for its actions, it is under family responsibility. Divine punishment or blessing that comes to its parents automatically falls upon it. This principle is seen at Ezekiel 9:6, where God’s command was to “slay utterly the old man, the young man and the virgin, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.”—AS.

The unresponsible children of the people who perished in the flood were not preserved with Noah in the ark, but were destroyed with their wicked parents. The same was true with regard to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. If those cities had contained ten righteous persons they would have been spared. Certainly there were more than ten unresponsible children in them; nevertheless, God destroyed the two cities.

*** w52 1/15 p. 43 Training Children for Life in the New World ***

Therefore this proves that minor children of Christian parents are indirectly sanctified or counted worthy of protection in God’s sight until they reach the age of individual responsibility. Hence in this day of final judgment since 1918 parents are responsible for the final destiny of their minor children. When Armageddon strikes all minor children who are not under such “family merit” arrangement will meet annihilation with no hope of a resurrection. This is strongly indicated at Ezekiel 9:6 (AS), where it is written: “Slay utterly the old man, the young man and the virgin, and little children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.”

*** w52 6/1 pp. 342-343 Fixing Destinies in This Judgment Period ***

FAMILY RESPONSIBILITY

6 Since Ezekiel 9:4-6 shows that some “little children” are in the class eternally destroyed at Armageddon, on what basis are they put in that class in view of the fact that they are too young to be held accountable for themselves? The Scriptures indicate a family responsibility or a family merit under which the destiny of unresponsible children is determined. Scriptural examples of this principle will help meek and teachable ones mold their minds to fit in with God’s view on this matter, will help them get God’s thoughts on it rather than stubbornly clinging to their own. Theirs are not only fallible but also immaterial, since Jehovah’s are the ones that fix the principles that determine the outcome of the matter.

7 When Dathan and Abiram rebelled against Jehovah’s theocratic arrangement in the wilderness the earth swallowed them up. But not them alone, for the record shows that along with them perished “their wives, and their sons, and their little children”. (Num. 16:23-33; Deut. 11:6) Did not Achan by his greed bring death not only to himself but to his sons and daughters as well, his entire household and possessions being destroyed with him? (Josh. 7:24-26) Did not David’s sin result in his offspring’s death? (2 Sam. 12:15-18) Ham’s trespass brought a curse upon his son Canaan. (Gen. 9:22-27) King Saul’s descendants suffered for his sins. (2 Sam. 21:1-9) Also, the Mosaic Law stated that the iniquities of the parents should be visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

At a time of judgment Jesus said: “If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matt. 15:14, NW) That means not only clergy and laity but also parent and child. If a parent chooses to sin against the holy spirit despite the eternal interests of his offspring, that then becomes the responsibility of the parent. We have seen how the destructions at the time of the Flood and at the time of the fiery downpour on Sodom and Gomorrah were final. No small children were preserved in the ark; they must have been slain by Jehovah. Many babes and youngsters must have been in Sodom and Gomorrah, but their youthful innocence did not cause Jehovah to count them righteous. The presence of ten righteous ones would have saved the cities. There were certainly more than ten unresponsible children. Along with their unrighteous parents they were slain by Jehovah.—Gen. 18:20-33; 19:1-26.

*** w52 11/15 pp. 679-680 Marking Those Who Sigh and Cry ***

After the man in linen was sent forth the six men with slaughter weapons were commanded: “Pass through the city after him, and slay without mercy or pity. Old men, young men and maidens, little children and women—strike them all dead! But touch no one on whom is the mark. And begin at my sanctuary!” (Ezek. 9:5, 6, AT) This destructive work will be accomplished by the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at “the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon”. (Rev. 16:14, 16, NW) That destruction will be world-wide, as Jeremiah foretold at Jeremiah 25:33.

But why are little children also to suffer the wrath of Jehovah’s executioners? Because the Bible shows that children who have not reached the age of accountability share the destiny of their parents. God did not spare babes or little children at the time of the flood; they perished with their parents. The same was true regarding Sodom and Gomorrah and the desolation of the Jewish nation A.D. 70. However, the converse is also true. The Bible assures us that the faithful course of the parents assures the protection of children under the age of accountability.

Note also that in obedience to instructions the slaughter began at God’s sanctuary: “So they began with the elders in front of the house. Then he said to them, ‘Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain. Then go out, and slay in the city!’” (Ezek. 9:6, 7, AT) This is in keeping with Jehovah’s rule to deal with those having the greatest accountability first, and therefore apostate Christianity will be the first to suffer Jehovah’s wrath. Godless elements of Christendom may feel inclined to exult over the downfall of the religious elements, but God warns them that their turn will be next: “For, lo, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name [modern Jerusalem, Christendom]; and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished; for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith Jehovah of hosts.”—Jer. 25:29, AS.

*** w51 10/15 p. 616 Jehovah’s War of Armageddon ***

The carnage and destruction of Armageddon will be so awesome that it will defy human description. Already the carrion birds and wild beasts of the forest and zoos have been invited to banquet upon the many millions of carcasses of men, women and children of the high and mighty as well as of those who slavishly serve them.—Jer. 25:33, AS; Ezek. 9:5, 6; Rev. 19:17, 18, 21.

*** w50 4/1 p. 106 More and More Pioneers of Good News ***

19 To the contrary, you might say: ‘I love my child too much to fill his young mind with ideas that would cause him to become unpopular with his neighborhood playmates, and for this reason I will not encourage him to serve God now, but will wait until he is grown; then he can decide for himself.’ Is this true love for the child? True love would be to take the course that would benefit the child most, over the longest period of time. At Armageddon’s slaughter old and young alike will not be spared. After the marking work had been done according to Jehovah’s instructions, the command to his executioners then was: “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.” (Ezek. 9:6) Therefore no guarantee is given that a child will pass through Armageddon by reason of the field-service record of a parent that is careless toward his own children. In fact, the parent might be zealous and faithful on every point except that of offering his own children freely in God’s service. The selfish love held for a child might cause a parent to try to protect it from the adversary’s rebukes which come to all who stand for the Kingdom.

*** w50 11/15 p. 463 Questions from Readers ***

Will children who have not reached the age of accountability and who die at Armageddon have a resurrection?—Ohio reader.

We cannot be dogmatic about this matter, as God is the judge. However, if Jehovah God expresses an adverse judgment against certain individuals, and does this through his King Christ Jesus at Armageddon, there must be some sort of finality to God’s decision. If so, those destroyed by the judgment of God in the battle of Armageddon are really destroyed. Ezekiel chapter 9 appears to refer to Armageddon, and verse 6 states, “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark.” Those unmarked by a favorable reception of God’s warning receive no mercy from him. This is no injustice on God’s part. If it were a case of absolute justice he would spare no one, as everyone, young or old, is an imperfect sinner. It is only through the exercise of his love and mercy that anyone is preserved through Armageddon or is resurrected.

Children are affected by the course of their parents, and parents are warned that their iniquity is visited on their offspring unto the third and fourth generation. (Ex. 20:5, 6) Parents are commanded to instruct their children in God’s way, and if in these last days parents refuse to heed the divine instruction and warning they bring destruction upon themselves and their small children at Armageddon. (Deut. 6:6, 7; Eph. 6:4) According to justice God can leave such children dead, for, as Ezekiel showed, all die in their iniquity. (Ezek. 3:17-19; 33:1-6) Parents should remember that their wrong course unfavorably affects their children and may bring their offspring to destruction at Armageddon, just as a right course on the part of parents may put their small children in the way of preservation during Armageddon and opportunity for eternal life in the new world to follow.

*** km 11/88 p. 4 Presenting the Good News—To Children ***

Jehovah’s execution of judgment will affect all, including “young man and virgin and little child.” (Ezek. 9:6) The fact that some who have served Jehovah for many years embraced the truth at a tender age should help us see the need to give a witness to children we meet in the ministry. We can show loving concern just as Jesus did and bring a blessing by sharing the good news with them. (Matt. 19:14, 15) Be positive and give an appropriate witness to young ones, with the hope that they too may become praisers of Jehovah.

OnTheWayOut

Oh yeah...."Family Merit" I remember reading of that teaching several
times in the Bible....NOT! Thanks for the pic Gary!

megsmomma, your wit is getting you into my "favorite posters." I was LOL at that one.

By the way, "family merit" can be found 25 times in WT magazines on the
WT Library 2005. It can be found a few other times in their literature,
but not even once in their Bible.

Is there any literature that speaks of babies dying in "A"

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