| HeidiJo11/6/2006 3:00 PM | 1 out of 17 | | | Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some feedback and thoughts about how to treat non-Witness family members. My sister disassociated herself some time ago as a teen, and is now married and recently pregnant. As all of my family are Witnesses, none of us have had any contact with her for about 5 years, although we relay messages through her husband occasionally. Our dealings with her have always been fairly simple since she chose not to be a Witness. Now that she is pregnant she wants to know if we will be involved in her baby's life - and I'm really not sure what to say! She has been very respectful of our feelings, and has suggested keeping communication non-religious, but that seems tricky since religion is such a huge part of our lives. Of course it would be wonderful to be a part of her baby's life, but it would mean reopening communication with her. So I am confused! I have done some research and I realize this is a matter of personal conscience, but any suggestions and further insight would be much appreciated!
Warm Christian love,
Heidi | |
| WatchTheCanary11/6/2006 8:42 PM | 2 out of 17 | | | Something to consider: Jesus did say that he would cause divisions within families. Did he mean his followers would reject their own nonbelieving families, or did he mean that nonbelieving family would cause hardships for the believers?
It certainly is better to err on the side of love when we are unsure of the right path. However, the dynamics of each situation are different and unique. We do not know the reason your sister chose to disassociate herself. For example, was it to go practice witchcraft and be a professional fortuneteller? Is she a corrupting influence on you? Does she have genuine love for her family, or are there ulterior motives? We don't know any of this (though you do mention she has been respectful so far, which is good).
Given your hesitancy to even "reopen communication with her" it sounds like there is something pretty bad there, whether a deplorable lifestyle on her part or perhaps just a bad falling out between you personally which makes it an awkward situation. But something I was recently told is, "The only time you're growing as a person is when you are uncomfortable." Embracing uncomfortable situations makes us better in the long run, so long as we are not reckless in doing so.
You asked for suggestions... I'm afraid I don't have any of those, but hopefully the above thoughts will prove helpful. :-) | |
| marken11/7/2006 2:54 AM | 3 out of 17 | | | another thing to keep in mind is that the baby has not been disfellowshipped. should we allow our stand on non-association to infect our relationship with those who deserve our love? As WTC says, it is a matter of conscience. You must uphold the bibles directions on non-association and also uphold its principles of love. It is not easy. Pray to Jehovah with love in your heart and I am sure he will direct your steps. Prov. 3:5,6
with affection from Marken | |
| summerthyme11/7/2006 12:49 PM | 4 out of 17 | | | HeidiJo, Welcome to the Jehovah's Witnesses discussion board at BeliefNet!
SummerThyme
BeliefNet Community Host
JW Boards | |
| shawnell_q11/8/2006 1:55 AM | 5 out of 17 | | | Hi, I believe family is family no matter what!! And you guys not talking and you wondering if you should or should not, I think is wrong I was raised as a JW and when I was 12 my mom left, us being young we did not know better but ever since some of our family don’t speak to us cause of that but the ones that are good hearted still do (all JW) and they still have hope of us returning and that’s what we want to do BUT it makes it hard when we know people will look down on us cause we left and came back and I think its unfair to be treated that way I was taught to love all and it should not matter if your sister is not a JW she is your sister.... It hurts me to see that how people are and it makes me wonder because just because someone is not a JW they should be looked down on or a FAMILY member has been disfellowshipped you should not be family?? It would make more since to have family then to not. you make me question my own thoughts.. | |
| achtung11/8/2006 1:23 PM | 6 out of 17 | | | Some countries require each religion to register with some government agency. In most countries which require that, the official full name is "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses".
Of course, acceptable shortened forms continue to include "Jehovah's Witnesses" or simply "Witnesses". | |
| summerthyme11/8/2006 4:27 PM | 7 out of 17 | | | achtung, Welcome to the Jehovah's Witnesses discussion board at BeliefNet.
SummerThyme
BeliefNet Community Host
JW Boards | |
| dan02018311/9/2006 3:59 PM | 8 out of 17 | | | Where do you draw the line between family and religion? It was your sisters decision to disassociate herself and although you and your family may strongly disagree with her decision, the point is that she is still your sister. Now especially that a new born is on the way, it would be nice and helpful for the baby to be around family.
I believe that if your sister chooses not to live her life as you and your family, that shouldnt be something that you hold against her. If you start talking to your sister once again, make her feel welcomed, i can tell you that it not good being separated with family. Based on what you had said, it is a given that your sister misses all of you. | |
| Nephylos11/11/2006 12:05 AM | 9 out of 17 | | | I have to disagree with most of these posts. The "family is family" philosophy was addressed by Jesus himself when in Matthew 12:48-50 he made a clear point that "family" are the ones "doing the will of my Father" and NOT necessarily your fleshly relatives. When you become a JW, you are a part of Jesus' family in which you dedicated your life to doing the will of his Father, Jehovah. If you reneg on that dedication by disassociating or getting disfellowshipped, you are no longer a part of that family which supersedes, or "makes obsolete" your fleshly family. That being the case, the one who leaves the family is cutting themselves out, knowing the consequences. They are welcomed back into the family when they resume "doing the will" of Jehovah and backing it up with "works that befit repentance" (Acts 26:20) The attitude that "family is family" whether or not they're part of Jehovah's organization betrays a fleshly way of thinking. "To appreciate what it means to be a “spiritual” person, it is helpful to understand the opposite term, “fleshly,” as used by the writer Paul. What does being “fleshly” mean? It means to be dominated by the flesh, that is, to have an earthly, worldly viewpoint. Such thinking is that of imperfect, fallen men; this is what has saturated this whole system. Fleshly men judge “by human standards.”" (April 1, 1974 Watchtower, pg 209, par 3). | |
| HeidiJo11/11/2006 5:28 PM | 10 out of 17 | | | I guess I am a little surprised by many of the responses so far - I do not think I have been harsh or severe with my sister for not talking to her. She disassociated herself because she is athiest; it is not like she temporarily acted sinfully and had been disfellowshipped. My family and I all agree that it would not be wise to keep communication open with her since her beliefs may be a corrupting influence. Plus, treating disfellowshipped/disassociated ones in this manner is an act of love to encourage the erring one to repent, is it not? All this to say that regarding my sister I feel the line between family and faith is quite clear: faith.
However, I am unsure where to draw the line regarding my neice. My concern is that my neice is not being raised according to God's standards and (I think - wrongly?) would be viewed as no different from any other worldly person in God's eyes. Since we are advised to be no part of this world, we do not hold on to worldly relationships. BUT my neice will have a God-given free will to decide on her own if she will accept the Truth one day or not, and so after much prayer I feel like it is proper to be involved in my neice's life as much as possible in order to provide her with an example of Jehovah's way of life.
I feel like I am just thinking aloud here so thank you for listening (well, reading) to me work this through. Although I haven't agreed with all the responses, I appreciate them because they've really made me think! I'm still open to any other suggestions. | |
| Nephylos11/11/2006 11:58 PM | 11 out of 17 | | | Heidi, you seem to be on the right track. Your niece isn't even born yet, if I read your first post correctly, so there's no need to rush to action. You simply need to keep your relationship with your atheist sister and your new niece separate. Your sister has been taught and given a witness. The baby obviously has not... yet! Your association with your sister should not change. Keep it to family business only. You can offer to keep the child (if you're able) at times when your sister needs a sitter, respecting her wishes as to how to care for the child. The child can come to know Jehovah through you and other family members this way and therefore make a more informed decision later in life. You say she asked if you were going to be involved in "the baby's life", not hers, so tell her you absolutely plan to, but that it doesn't change the situation with her. Her being a former JW, she will undoubtedly know that you intend to witness to the child and that your witnessing will be a part of your relationship with the child. If she respects who you are and what you are despite that she doesn't share your beliefs, then she should allow her baby come to know these things about you because that's who you are! If it doesn't work out that way- don't worry. Pray and leave it in Jehovah's hands! Just don't interfere with the discipline he's giving your sister! | |
| matica11/12/2006 11:21 AM | 12 out of 17 | | | The practice of disfellowshipping is called for by the apostle Paul in his letters. The chief scriptural passage relied upon is 1 Cor. 5: 1-13. Further discussion of what it means not to "mix in company" (sunanamignusthai) with a person like this is given in Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians: "But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him (sunanamignusthai), that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother" (2 Thess. 3:14-15). Paul uses the same word here as in 1 Corinthians and makes it clear that not to mix in company with someone does not mean a complete shunning, for he urges his readers to keep admonishing the one with whom they are not to associate. In order to do that, they would have to speak to that person. Congregation members, therefore, would limit their association with one who has been "handed over to Satan," not enjoying a meal of fellowship with that person, but would not shun them completely.
Paul gives a list of offenses for which someone might be "handed over to Satan." Actually, it is inaccurate to say "a list of offenses;" the list is of types of people, and these are fornicators, greedy persons, idolators, revilers, drunkards, and extortioners (5:11). In another letter he appears to add "blasphemers" (1 Tim. 1:20). Notice that he does not say “someone who commits fornication” or “someone who commits idolatry.” He says, “a fornicator” and “an idolater.” Clearly he is referring to practicers of these sins, and these persons are not presumed future practicers or potential practicers. They are practicers.
Jehovah’s Witnesses has added a long list of other offenses for which someone might be disfellowshipped. These include: manslaughter, lying, obscene speech, failure to abstain from blood, refusal to provide materially for one’s family, non-neutral activities, fits of anger, misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs, loose conduct, associating with a disfellowshipped person, and several activities that come under the “apostasy” umbrella and have to do with syncretism, like attending meetings of another religious group, working secularly for another religious organization, celebrating a religious holiday, and the possession of images or pictures employed in another religion (Pay Attention, pp. 92-96). Is it justifiable to add to Paul’s words? Should the organization go beyond what is written? If it is not called for in the Bible, then clearly it was not important enough for God to have included it (1 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:9).
Paul stated at 1 Timothy 5:8; ”Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
1 Cor 5:12b, 13 states; “Do YOU not judge those inside, while God judges those outside?” | |
| Nephylos11/13/2006 11:24 PM | 13 out of 17 | | | The point is that HeidiJo's sister disassociated herself. That's the same as saying, "I don't believe this is the truth. I don't believe I need to associate with Jehovah's organization. I don't believe I need to align myself with Jehovah. I don't believe in the commission Jesus issued to preach door to door. I have better things to do with my life..." As long as her sister remains disassociated, she's a practicer of denial in Jehovah, his teachings, his commandments and principles, his earthly organization, and his purpose. Would you suggest that since Paul didn't "list" a "practicer of denial of Jehovah" that it wouldn't be a disfellowshipping offense? Would Jehovah want us to mix in company with someone who, after learning about him and dedicating their life to him , decided later that he doesn't even exist!? Atheism is the same as or maybe worse than false religion. Besides, the proof throughout the bible shows that Paul's "list" as quoted above is not all- inclusive according to Jehovah's standards. | |
| Nephylos11/13/2006 11:32 PM | 14 out of 17 | | | Just for emphasis to my previous post, here's 2John 8-11:
"8 Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."
I think an atheist, particularly a former JW who has turned to atheism, falls DIRECTLY under the category of one who "does not remain in the teaching of the Christ" and therefore is deserving of complete shunning, save for family business. The niece, however, is a separate person! | |
| HeidiJo11/15/2006 3:52 PM | 15 out of 17 | | | I agree with you, Nephylos, and I think you completely understand the situation.
matica: I am assuming that you are a JW if you are on this site, but I question the way you distinguish what the Bible says from what the Society says (God's organization). When we became Witnesses, we understood that Jehovah gives us his guidelines and directions via His earthly organization. You cannot pick and choose which of the JW guidelines you want to follow - this is an all-or-nothing thing. If I understand correctly, you're concerned that the Society has added non-Biblical offenses for not associating with someone. Obviously, Paul wrote his letters almost 2000 years ago and he would not include things like smoking, internet pornography, or road rage because these things weren't invented yet. And yet all these "non-Biblical" inclusions are based on broad prinicples mentioned in the Bible. Maybe not celebrating Christmas and Halloween are not specifically mentioned in the Bible, but not worshipping false idols/gods is. Same with smoking, porn, and excessive anger. My long-winded point here is that being athiest IS an appropriate non-associating offense because the Bible says many things about not being too friendly with non-believers (e.g. 'bad associations spoil useful habits'; Dinah and Shehcem; and all of Paul's different mentions of not eating/associating with such ones).
So, I do not think that the JW organization has gone beyond Paul's words or the Bible's words, but has interpreted the scriptures for modern times. | |
| laceyanne11/19/2006 2:42 PM | 16 out of 17 | | | I am sort of dealing with this. I have 2 siblings and my brother DA'd himself and left the witnesses. He is a hardcore apostate. He has 2 boys 7 and 1 and he told our parents that we could not have a relationship with them as long as we did not have a relationship with him. We have only seen them from a distance and in pictures.
Now my sister she stopped attending meetings at 18 and was never baptized. She has an extremely close relationship with our brother and I know that she is an atheist. At the same time though she has never opposed our religion and has always been very respectful.
Our relationship with her has been difficult. It's hard when she is so close to someone who actively opposes with witnesses. When she comes to visit she stays at his house which is on the same street as our KH. Our brother has offensive signs about the witnesses in his front yard and every year goes all out with Holloween and Christmas decorations. She does nothing to stop this. She just says to leave her out of it.
She is expecting a baby any day now. She is unmarried and has no plans to marry the father. They have lived together for about 3 years. My parents want so much to play an active role in the baby's life. She said she plans to raise the baby as an atheist and she told us not to witness to him. This is just breaking our heart. I can only imagine the influence my brother will have on her child.
We are not sure what steps to take if any since she said we cannot witness to the baby. | |
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