by Woodsman 17 Replies latest jw friends
Hi Jim,
I remember you from Channel C.
I agree with your historical tidbits.
And while the Japanese may have felt the Nuclear weapons were not a fair trade for Pearl Harbor I was under the impression they were not so much payback as a prevention of a land invasion. Perhaps both.
I had two grandfathers who were in the Dutch military fighting the the Japanese in Indoesia. One was captured and killed, the other wasn't but from the few accounts he's shared with the family it truly amazes me how brutal the Japanese were.
Sorry, but I live in Japan and see it differently.
I'm curious, how differently (because you live in Japan?) do you see it? Do tell.
Woodsman,
And while the Japanese may have felt the Nuclear weapons were not a fair trade for Pearl Harbor I was under the impression they were not so much payback as a prevention of a land invasion. Perhaps both.
You are 100% correct ... and to end the war early. Many at the time believed that the Japanese would never have surrendered, and the war would have lasted months or years longer ... with tens of thousdands to a hundred thousand or more American casualties.
Jim Whitney
In 1941, my Dad had been in the Navy for 10 years, and was stationed in Bremerton WA. He was on leave in Seattle with Mom and my brother (I wasn't born yet) when Pearl Harbor happened. He immediately was called to the base and was gone for 4 years. He spent quite a lot of time in Pearl Harbor, but spent most of the war in Dutch Harbor, Alaska, and eventually on the Battleship Lexington, and in Okinawa.
When he left the Navy, (when they became JW's) he had achieved the rank of Chief Warrant Officer. He died last January at age 92.
At the time of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, a plan (Operation Downfall) had already been drawn up to invade the Japanese home islands. "Downfall" was to be in two parts: - Operation "Olympic", scheduled for November 1945, was to capture the southern part of Kyushu, Japan's southernmost island. -Operation "Coronet" - to begin early the following year - was to take place on the Kanto Plain area (near Tokyo) of Japan's central island, Honshu. Casualty predictions varied widely, but all the predictions agreed on one thing: - i.e. that casualties would be extremely high! - The Joint Chiefs of Staff had estimated that Olympic alone (i.e. the capture of Southern Kyushu) would result in between 456 000 and 1 200 000 casualties - depending on whether the operation could be sewn up in 90 days, or whether the battle became more protracted. - General McArthur's staff estimated that Olympic would result in 125 000 casualties after 120 days of fighting. - General Marshall's staff used the previous year's Battle of Luzon as a model, and came up with an estimate of 70 000 casualties for Operation Olympic. - Admiral Leahy's staff, on the other hand used the recently concluded Battle for Okinanwa as a model (a battle that had cost America 70 000 casualties),and estimated 268 000 casualties just to secure Southern Kyushu. (As it turned out, the Japanese had correctly deduced the American plans, and had set their defences up accordingly - guaranteeing that the casualties would have been on the higher side of the estimates!). These casualty predictions were for just one phase of one operation - no one was claiming that the capture of Southern Kyushu would finish the war with Japan. While by that point Japan's navy and air forces were largely out of the equation (what hadn't been destroyed outright was immobilised through lack of fuel)- it still had a formidable army at its disposal. Also,fierce resistance was expected from its civilian population. Adding all this together, a study done by William Shockley for the Secretary of War estimated that the total conquest of Japan - i.e. not just the capture of one half of one island - would have resulted in anywhere between 1.7 to 4.0 million US casualties (By battlefield casualties, they mean the total of those killed, wounded or captured. Except in the case of the war with Japan, there was not a lot of capturing done!) Jack.
We were in San Francisco a lot of years ago. Some Japanese tourists were there taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge and we chatted for a few moments. They commented on how pleased we must have been when it was rebuilt. Our question - what do you mean rebuilt? You know, after the war, when it was destroyed, bombed - the lady said. After telling her that it wasn't bombed and destroyed during the war, she looked unbelieving and nodded. Well, that is what we learn in our history, she said - that we were successful in attacking San Francisco and destroying the bridge. sammieswife.
Thanks for thoses statistics. It is erie that I may owe my existence to those nukes. My grandfather didn't father my dad until after the war. If he had died in an expanded theater I would not be here.
