Hey, You Masters of War

TheOldHippie

In these Days of The Great Cowboys Preparing for the Man-Hunt, here are some lines telling what the Mediterranean/European sentiments are, as published by a political commentator. I just quote them to show the US-Europe gap:
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Un minuto de Silencio...
Si todavia estas horrorizado por las escenas del martes pasado, aprovecha para hacer UN MINUTO de silencio en homenaje a los casi 10.000 Americanos, la mayoria civiles, muertos cobardemente por terroristas que aun no se sabe quienes son.
Ya que estas en silencio, guarda otros TRECE MINUTOS en homenaje a los 130.000 civiles iraquies muertos en 1991 por orden Bush padre.
Aprovecha para recordar que en aquella ocasion los americanos tambien hicieron fiesta, como los palestinos hace dias...
....ahora mas VEINTE MINUTOS por los 200.000 iranies muertos por los iraquies con armas y dinero proveidos a Sadam Hussein (todavia joven en esa epoca) por los mismos americanos que mas tarde giraron toda su artilleria contra ellos...
Otros QUINCE MINUTOS por los rusos y 150.000 afganos muertos en manos del Taliban, tambien con armas y ordenes de USA, quienes crearon su organizacion y la entrenaron con la cia....
Mas DIEZ MINUTOS por los 100.000 japoneses muertos directa e indirectamente en Hiroshima y Nagazaki, tambien por accion directa de la gran Aguila...
Si lo hiciste, ya estuviste en silencio UNA HORA (UN MINUTO por los todos los americanos y CINCUENTA Y NUEVE por TODAS sus victimas...)
Si aun estas perplejo, haz una hora mas por los muertos en la guerra de Vietnam, la cual no agradable de mencionar para los americanos...
Ojala (aunque los indices de belicosidad de los americanos indiquen lo contrario), alguien recuerda el bombardeo de USA a Bagdag ??? donde murieron 18 mil personas , no 5 mil como en las torres??, alguien lo vio en la CNN?? o algun canal del mundo?? alguien pidio justicia?? o peor aun venganza? rogamos porque los americanos comiencen a entender que ellos tambien son vulnerables y que las tragedias que ellos provocan son tan barbaras y cobardes como las de los otros.
Los MUERTOS de otros pueblos duelen tanto como los de ellos...
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In case there are some uneducated window-washers amongst you, who do not speak the language fluently, I will just give you the main points:
If we are horrified at the terrible tragedy which took place in the US, and pay our respect to the 10,000 victims by one minute's silence;
You should be silent for 13 minutes in respect of the 130,000 cicilian Iraqis killed in 1991 on the order of President Bush;
And remember that Americans celebrated this, as did the Palestinians celebrate now;
You should be silent for 20 minutes for the 200,000 civilian Iranians killed by the Iraqis back in the 80's thru weapons provided for by the US, as Sadaam was then the US tool against Iran;
You should be silent for 15 minutes for the 150,000 civilian Afghans killed by the Talibans, who were given weapons and training by the US against the Russian-installed regime;
You should be silent for 10 minutes for the 100,000 civilian Japanese bombed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the US;
So you should be silent for one hour - one minute for the ones killed in the New York massacre, and 59 minutes for the civilians killed by the US in other countries;
And one hour more for the ones killed in Viet Nam, although that is not nice to mention to the Americans;
And we can also remember the 18,000 killed by the US bombs over Bagdad - did someone cry for justice or revenge then? Perhaps the Americans can begin seeing they are as vulnerable as is everybody else, and that the tragedies they have committed to others are just as barbarious as the one they have experienced themselves? The dead ones of the other nations count just as much as these latter ones.
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Good lines, I feel, in the heat of the night, to cool down some of the most revengefull cries and acts ..............

jelly

Yes I agree war is terrible. As a matter of fact I think very few Americans would disagree with that statement. Your post however does not address the reality that sometimes war is both inevitable and necessary.

Jelly

larc

OldHippie,

So what do you suggest we should do?

GWEEDO

Well, Hippster...welcome to the age of video game wars where you can fly at 10,000 ft and drop bombs all day and not feel a god damn thing. People will be watching this war on CNN with pop corn in hand cheering as a top view lines up some cross hairs on some poor bastards house and blows it to kingdom come. A generation of disconnected Arm chair commandos we are.

But like Jelly said, sometimes war just happens. Don't mean you have to like it though.

jelly

No Gweedo I never said that ‘wars just happen’. What I said is that they are sometimes inevitable, sometimes necessary, and sometimes both. You confuse the will to defend oneself with the blood lust for war.

Jelly

GWEEDO

Larc

So what do you suggest we should do?

Good question. What should we do? Does anyone know? Does Bush know?

There needs to be a little more explanation on Bush's part as to what he is actually going to do --without going into precise military detail of course-- before bombs start falling.

GWEEDO

Jelly

No Gweedo I never said that ‘wars just happen’. What I said is that they are sometimes inevitable, sometimes necessary, and sometimes both. You confuse the will to defend oneself with the blood lust for war.

Jelly, i wasn't disagreeing with you, i understood exactly what you said. I just used a little bit of poetic licence.

What I said is that they are sometimes inevitable, sometimes necessary, and sometimes both.

I agree...

larc

GWEEDO,

My simple question to Hippy was to get him to think about our alternatives. If he chooses to rail against our country, that is fine, but he ought to understand that every country in the history of mankind has committed evil. That doesn't change the fact that we have to deal with organized murderers.
Regarding what we will do, I don't think your government will choose to indiscriminately bomb. I think this will be a very well reasoned removal of the societal cancer that is terrorism.

GWEEDO

Larc,

I think this will be a very well reasoned removal of the societal cancer that is terrorism.

Well, I expect something to happen...whatever that will be, who knows. I'm really not for or against military action at the moment since there aint enough details floating around. But I am very sceptical that this war on terrorism will be won with bombs alone...Israel has never been able to eradicate it doing so. I've heard analysts say that this 'war' wont work unless the root causes are also addressed. One of the problems the US is dealing with is the extremist nature of some segements of the Islamic culture, and how can you deal with that. But these groups thrive on an under current of percieved injustice. The U.S. will have to address its Mid-east policies to win...But will it.

Dropping bombs alone is only going to cause more 'blowback'

TheOldHippie

Yes, larc, What should we do? I have found the comments here well-balanced, as have the comments to the terrorist attack in general also been. They seem not to line up with the cowboy mentality of certain people of importance, who have voiced that "Either you are with US, or else you are with the terrorists." There is a growing discomfort here in Europe, that the US will overplay the reply, will hit out too much. So you should be very careful in order not to destroy the sympathy you now have. Crying mothers in Kabul might easily destroy the picture. Over here, Israel had the sympathy of 99 % of the people up till 1980 or so, whereas the few ones sumpathising (wrong spelling, I am sure ......) with the Palestinians, were regarded as potential terrorists. The Israeli acts of later years have given as a result, that today 20-30 % have sympathy for the Israeli, whereas the majority have sympathy for the Palestinians. A US reply like the war on Iraqi, will make the Europeans voice even stronger that "Hey, we are not on your side, but we are not on the terrorist side either!" The Chief Cowboy makes statements that are hard to understand here. I just wanted to let some European voices he heard, voices I found "good", well-articulated, and it seems many posters on this board also can understand that, also can see the balance in these matters, and are not as cowboy-ish as we feel "all" Americans are these days. Perhaps there is hope for America after all ..........

Hey, You Masters of War

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