For Newbies: EXCELLENT Judicial meeting with LOTS of info!!

by Lady Liberty 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Band on the Run

  I was impressed with the respect he gave the elders. They listened for a long time. All the elders could say was "organization, organization," They were unable to refute one solitary point. Notice 1914 isn't that important. The Trinity is not mentioned. No, the only thing important is the organization. The organization is the organization b/c it is an organization. Nice logic.

  When I was younger, I was fascinated with obscure doctrine. Now I focus on the lack of love and lack of basic Bible knowledge. The elders reveal they have little knowledge besides parroting Witness literature. Debate judges would throw this round to Townshend.

  It is sad to hear how the Witnesses were so much part of their life. The easier way would be to cringe and bear it. Very well done.

  Did you notice there is a difference whether he did the research by himself or used aids? Facts should be facts.
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  PrincessCynic

  Thanks for posting this link, I just finished listening to it. I actually thought that the elders handled it very well and treated them with a lot of respect but were so obviously out of their depth, I was kind of embarrassed for them

  I was amazed at how much the couple had discovered about the org without the use of the Internet. I have told my JW husband about the Malawi/Mexico thing and the letter the branch was sent from the society. He was really skeptical about how apostates got hold of a letter sent from the society to a foreign branch, he wondered if it might have been forged. I told him it was probably sent to all congregations and read out; now I know it was courtesy of Ray Franz.

  Thanks again, it was really interesting. Might have a look at what else is on that site now :)
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  Indian Larry

  Princess Cynic (love the name btw) it sounds like you have not yet read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz yet.

  http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675230/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321535495&sr=1-1

  I is a "must read" for anyone questioning the org. In that book he tells how he got the letters ( he was a former governing body member) he also shows xeroxed copies of the letters. Many other people did not believe that as well as the rank and file is kept in the dark by the governing body. I would bet my life that it is true though. In effect I am.

  In the early 80's there was a couple of elders (John May and Martin Merriman) from Ireland who (like your husband) could not believe some of this was true either. They flew 6000 miles at great expence to the US to personally look into all of this, they also asked to meet with the govering body. The body refused to meet with them even though they had flown from Ireland all the way to Brookland. They literally begged for help from the GB and were refused. It is shameful how they were treated. If you would like to hear the story it is a really good listen. After hearing this brother in Ireland speak for 5 min. there is no way you can doubt his sincerety.

  He was (as most witnesses still are) naive, and thought the governing body actually cared about the truth. He was under the (mistaken) impression that what the bible says about how to treat our brothers, and other matters should be ultimate deciding factor in any decsion. He learned otherwise, that is for sure. If you would like to hear his story in his own words go to this page:

  http://www.watchtowernews.org/media/mayrevised.mp3

  If you would like to see a video from the viewpoint of his friend Martin Merriman that covers many of the same points it can be seen here:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBa9HRSrnFk

  Share these with your husband, but don't push him too hard. When I first started learning the "truth about the truth" it was overwhelming. It takes time to digest everything. I was so angry at the organization. I literally have turned in the direction of Bethel and flipped them the finger. I was so angry I tried to push out my wife and family. I almost lost everything. I have since managed a long fade, I still have an excellent relationship with all of my family, my wife and I am here to help guide my child in critical thinking skills. I am also still friends with everyone in the congregation, and they are friendly to me.

  However I no longer attend the meetings, I do not go out in service, I skip assemblies. But I do not directly attack thier faith in the org. Rather I simply ask pointed questions from time to time to help them think for themselves. If I do push too hard and raise thier anger a little, I back off and save that battle for another day. Also from time to time (maybe 3-4 meetings a year) I do go to the hall, just to "throw them a bone" so to speak.

  It has worked well for me. Once my elderly parents have passed I may move forward a little more and perhaps D/A myself but I do not see that as something to rush into. The more time that goes by my viewpoint changes. I am not so angry at the org anymore. I actually feel sorry for most of those in bethel.

  For instance, I have no doubt that there is some brother up there assigned to monitor this site to try to track down dissenters on this site that they can take action against. That brother has GOT to be dealing with cognitive dissonence to a massive degree. He has to be miserable, but he is stuck. No education, no real world job experience, a tight job market. He (and others like him) are caught up not only in a moral dilemma, but also face the loss of their families, friends, and livelyhood. I feel sorry for him.

  If you have not read Leon Fessingers book "When Prophecy Fails" it is a very interesting book. It is not about the Witnesses at all. It is about a group of people in the '50's that believed in UFO's. They had a "prophet" that told them when the world would end. When it did not happen as predicted, the way they responded was very interesting. For most of the group it took 3 failures before they started to see the truth. After the first failed prophecy they actually believed even more. The book is available here on Amazon. If you like to read I reccomend it. It is "safe" to order or have in your home as it does not discuss Witnesses directly at all.

  http://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Leon-Festinger/dp/1891396986/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321535582&sr=8-1
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  zengalileo

  I too was real impressed at their gentleness. I could NEVER do that without railing on them. I remember Rick Townsend from when I was growing up in Canoga Park and later in Santa Maria. I arrived in santa Maria just two years after this tape. My brother David knew them and spoke ill of them after this went down. I grew up thinking this Townsend fellow was a demon. I remember being in Santa Maria in about 1985 visiting my brother and he told me to look up the hall in the phone book. he had just moved into town. So I called Jehovah's Christian Witnesses. An extremely nice lady answered and kindly told me that I was actually looking for the OTHER Jehovahs Witnesses. I asked her what kind she was, but she said I should talk to my parents first. I was about 14 or 15. I have always wondered who that was on the phone that was so nic e, and I think it might have been Laverne townsend. anyway I would love to hear from those folks and let him know one of the Deans, actually two of the Deans made it out. This should illustrate just how important it should be for anyone in this situation to record their judicial hearing.