J - ex- W . . . " can't believe the person equating belief in Santa Clause with innocence--and the right to hold onto their 'innocence' as long as possible. More like their right to be duped."
Were you a " bad seed ? "
'Santa Claus does not exist' school tells stunned kids
by Elsewhere 16 Replies latest jw friends
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Stephanus
I keep forgetting that a lot of people on this board don't come from a Christmas celebrating background, hence the "well, it's hardly rocket (arugula) science!" comments. But it's not about that. It's about parents' rights in bringing up their own children. When the parents decide to rat out Santa, that's fine (and sometimes the kids'll refuse to believe them anyway, because they reckon they'll get more presents, now that there're TWO sources). But it is absolutely NOT up to the state to comandeer that right. To an ex-Dub, 11 may seem late in life, but, So what?? How many kids get to adulthood still believing in Santa?
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cognizant dissident
Santa is a fictional character in a made up story. The teacher told the children the truth (Santa is a fictional character in a made up story). So the teacher must now be fired because she told the kids the truth and it is the parent's right to lie to kids and tell them fictional stories are "true" stories for as long as the parents see fit. Am I missing something here, or isn't this the same thing that most of the people on this discussion board are pissed off with the WTBTS for doing to us and our family for years? Sheesh, give the teacher a break already! She told the "TRUTH"! Where is the crime here?
When I was nine, my mother told me the true story of how babies were made. When I was 10 a schoolmate told me the made up story of how babies were made that her mother told her. I told her the truth. She went home and told her mother who was furious with my mother for telling me the truth. Was my mother wrong for telling me the truth about sex at age 10? Was the teacher wrong for telling the truth. This is the problem with telling your kids stuff that isn't true. Sooner or later they are going to find out the truth from someone and be upset that they have been tricked. So here's a logical solution. Let's gang up on all the truth tellers and fire them or murder them or disfellowship them. That'll solve the problem.
Yes, I told my kid fairy stories when he was little. I also told him they were "stories" and not real. This did not seem to take away from his enjoyment of the story or upset him in anyway. The only fictional story I told my child was true, was that "Jehovah was real and the WTBTS was his faithful and discreet slave" He was royally traumatized and pissed off when he found out that wasn't true at the age of 16. So was I at age 40. But we weren't mad at the people on this board who told us the truth. We were mad at the people who lied to us. Delusion is delusion whether it is religion, sex, or Santa Claus.
Cog
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JWdaughter
I don't ever really think I believed. We went to meetings long before we stopped celebrating holidays (I was 7 or 8 then). My husband wants the kids to believe. I think it is a fun thing to do before school, but I am not going to insist he IS real. . .I try to emphasise 'the spirit of Christmas' but when they finally start asking if he is real, thats when you know they really don't believe. Think about it. By the time you start questioning the WT, you really know the truth-just don't want to admit it. They are in denial by then also. Desperately wanting to believe, but knowing it's mum and dad.
The WT is our own personal Santa.
I don't think it is the place of the school to address it when they KNOW that it is truly a family thing. Then again, no one is dying over this deception. Perspective is helpful.
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Stephanus
Santa is a fictional character in a made up story. The teacher told the children the truth (Santa is a fictional character in a made up story). So the teacher must now be fired because she told the kids the truth and it is the parent's right to lie to kids and tell them fictional stories are "true" stories for as long as the parents see fit. Am I missing something here, or isn't this the same thing that most of the people on this discussion board are pissed off with the WTBTS for doing to us and our family for years? Sheesh, give the teacher a break already! She told the "TRUTH"! Where is the crime here?
TRUTH is something that combats lies. Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny are just fibs; a game of let's pretend that parents play with their children, until they're old enough to move on. It's not up to the state to decide when the game should end. The parents and the kids will come to that point without any help from the powers that be.
The state should be concerned when beliefs are prompting people to deny life-saving medical procedures for their children, or encouraging them to strap on bomb belts to kill civilians. A belief that has kids leaving out milk and cookies for a kindly old man who leaves presents is hardly in the same league.
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lisavegas420
This is a little off topic, but I'm putting it here anyway.
When I was probably 8 or 9, we (my sister and I) explained to all the kids at our babysitters the truth about Santa.
Well the parents of these children were furious. They called my parents and freaked out on them. In turn, our parents freaked on us for getting THEM in hot water. We were told not to discuss Santa with the kids at the babysitter ever again.
I remember feeling sick to my stomach that my friends were all going to die. I remember being confused because I thought we were supposed to stand up for the truth. Yet now we were being told not to????.
Oh well...If I ever get to talk to my parents again...this is one many confusing memories I'd like cleared up.
lisa
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cognizant dissident
TRUTH is something that combats lies. Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny are just fibs; a game of let's pretend that parents play with their children, until they're old enough to move on.
I agree with you Stephanus, fibs are harmless little lies, and the Santa Claus fib is a game of let's pretend with children. No big deal. And when the kids figure it out themselves, or a teacher let's the cat (truth) out of the bag, then the harmless little game is ended, it was fun while it lasted, again, it's no big deal.
It is the parents who are making a big deal out of it. Fire the teacher? That won't have serious life changing consequences for her and her family? Get the state involved. Make it a federal/moral issue? Come on! Consistency of perspective is what is required here. If the Santa fib is truly a harmless little fib (which I agree with by the way), then busting the harmless little fib is inconsequential.
If the "right" to tell your kid's harmless lies, and to be the only one allowed to decide when the truth can be told to them is a moral/ethical issue worthy of getting a teacher fired, involving school board/governmental policy making, then the teacher has a "right" to a full blown/moral ethical defense. My point is that it is the parents who are making it a huge moral issue, not the teacher. I personally of am the view that this is all much ado about nothing.
The state should be concerned when beliefs are prompting people to deny life-saving medical procedures for their children, or encouraging them to strap on bomb belts to kill civilians. A belief that has kids leaving out milk and cookies for a kindly old man who leaves presents is hardly in the same league.
I also agree with you on this point. These beliefs are not in the same league as to the damage they can do. The first two scenarios are very dangerous and the last is harmless. The parents are putting these issues in the same league when they contend that the teacher has done some great harm to them and their children's happiness by telling them the "truth". The parents are contending that only they have a right to define what is "truth" and what is "harmless fibs" to their children. It is this contention (not the content or the extent of the fiction) that puts the issue in the same league as the other. That was why I brought up the WTBTS issue in my previous post. Not because I believe the lies are equal in harm, but because as soon as anyone starts to believe they have a "right" or a monopoloy on "truth" or beliefs, including when the truth can be told and to whom it can be told, they are creating a mindset where the WTBTS can happen. This is true of ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs. It's a slippery slope that may start with trying to control the belief in Santa Claus (harmless) and at the other end can end with people letting their children die because of their "right" to their beliefs.
Cog
p.s. Merry Christmas! (bah humbug for all the atheists!)