by Triple A 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
What would you have answered or what would have been your reaction to the following?
While discussing the Trinity, you as the JW said that the word Trinity is not in the Bible.
The non-JW responds, Well you believe in a Theocracy or Theocratic organization. Show me where in the Bible that word appears.
One of the most successful thought-stopping devices that the governing body of jehohah's witnesses teaches its adherents to use is arrogance. By considering yourself superior to the person you are talking to, you don't have to really pay attention to anything they say. So, I would simply have just ignored the babble from this ignoramous and switched to another topic or something.
I can't say enough how much I regret my arrogant actions as a jw. I'm sorry all.
Thanks Abandoned,
I usually feel like I am playing catch by myself when talking to a JW. Because they never seem to hear anything I say or give it any thought.
That is why I am looking for things that may stick, not so much as when they are talking to me. But later that night, they start ask themselves the question when they are alone.
Triple A
I think the best way, and I have this from a very good friend who has used this technique in witnessing to witnesses, is to base everything on love. Witnesses aren't used to unconditional love. Everything in "the truth" is based on actions. Befriend them. They don't have real friends in "the truth" because most if not all of them would dump someone in an instant if the elders told them to.
My friend mentioned a question that she used to good effect. She asked a jw the question: "Since Jesus told you to keep celebrating the memorial until he returned, why didn't you stop doing it when he returned in 1914?"
Good question, I will put use that next time I talk to a JW. Thanks.
Hello Triple A,
"Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the Truth." - AWAKE!, 10/22/73, p. 6
"Within any important issue, there are always aspects no one wishes to discuss." - George Orwell
"When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral resposibility to give that warning?" - WT 1/15/74, p.?
A little food for thought..............
CoCo
The witnesses, have an agenda of assimilation and as is said in the above you can present any mountain of evidence and they will not listen. I have found that years and years of trying to talk sense to these people is a fruitless endevour. Taking about doctrine is what they are trained for. Saving you is there objective. Indeed real love is a rare thing in there expereince and they may or may not question there own hapiness, however they have there families involved and their own social structure as a support. They want to draw into theological discussion that's just there cup of tea. Try to make them see the damage they cause people and appeal to common sense. Do not let them draw you into any other discussion. this is just what they want. Unfortunatly, I suspect that for them the only universal language these fools understand is the pain that effects them in their own daily lives. If their isn't enough pain yet because of their disonance then the elephant will just continue to sit on the needle until there is. Lets face it some of these clowns will never leave. If you show them love they may just see it as a heart condition that is ripe for Jehhoobers phychoticallly loving organization.
While discussing the Trinity, you as the JW said that the word Trinity is not in the Bible.The non-JW responds, Well you believe in a Theocracy or Theocratic organization. Show me where in the Bible that word appears.
Dear Triple A,
A competent JW would not have merely asserted that the absence of the word "Trinity" is irrefutable evidence against that doctrine.
A competent JW would have said "Neither the word nor the CONCEPT of a Trinity is found in the Bible". And that's when the real debate begins. Let's not make JWs sound stupider than they really are.
INQ
Actually "theocracy" means "God rules" and that concept is in the Bible and is not exclusively used by the WTS.
It might be better to use the word "governing body" in this discussion because the WTS itself admits that this term doesn't appear in the Bible. The term "governing body" does not appear as a major section in the Insight Volume because the term is not scriptural.
*** w72 11/15 pp. 703-704 Questions From Readers ***
Why do we use the term "governing body" for the elders that preside over the work of Jehovah’s witnesses?—U.S.A.
The term "governing body" as such is not found in the Scriptures. However, there is ample evidence that a body of elders serving in a governing capacity did exist in the first-century Christian congregation.
Paul admonished his fellow Christians: "Remember those who are takingthelead among you. . . . Be obedient to those who are takingthelead among you and be submissive." Or, as other translations put it, remember and obey ‘those guiding you.’ (AuthorizedVersion, margin; Murdock’s Syriac;Rotherham) The KingdomInterlinear reads: "Be you mindful of the ones governing [Gr., he·gou·me´non] of you."—Heb. 13:7, 17, 24.
Forms of this same Greek word are found at Matthew 2:6; Luke 22:26; Acts 7:10; 15:22, where the meaning is similar, namely, that of governing, acting as chief or taking the lead. The Septuagint uses a form of this word in rendering Malachi 1:8: "Bring it near, please, to your governor [Gr., he·gou·me´noi]."
Thus, it is evident that there were certain persons governing in the Christian congregation by the lead and guidance they gave their brothers in righteous works and godly principles.
The English word "govern," from the Latin verb gubernare, is derived from the Greek word ky·ber·na´o, which has the basic meaning to "steer or pilot a ship, direct, govern." (CenturyDictionaryandCyclopedia, Vol. III, pp. 2584, 2585) For this reason a "governor" may refer to the mechanism on a machine that controls and regulates its speed or pressure. A "governing body" may, therefore, refer to an agency that administers policy and gives direction, guidance and regulation to an organization.
Commenting on the Greek word from which the English "govern" comes, the ExpositoryDictionaryofNewTestamentWords by W. E. Vine (Vol. II, p. 168) says: "kubernao, to guide (whence Eng., govern), denotes (a) steering, pilotage [compare Acts 27:11]; (b) metaphorically, governments or governings, said of those who act as guides in a local church, 1 Cor. 12:28." This text, 1 Corinthians 12:28, reads: "And God has set the respective ones in the congregation, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then powerful works; then gifts of healings; helpful services, abilities to direct [Gr., ky·ber·ne´seis]."
The Septuagint, in translating the Hebrew word tahh·bu·lah´, meaning ‘steerage, guidance,’ uses this Greek word, as, for example, at Proverbs 1:5: "The man of understanding will gain direction [Gr., ky·ber´ne·sin]."
In the first century, the elders and overseers in the various congregations certainly exercised "abilities to direct" in the local territories, as this was necessary for good coordination of the work and for peace and unity in the flock of God. Directive guidance is an essential part of the work of a shepherd.—Compare Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Timothy 3:4, 5; Titus 1:9.
And what was true of the local congregations was clearly necessary for the directing of the Christian work in general. So it was that the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem served as a body to give guidance and counsel to all the congregations.
While "abilities to direct" are placed considerably down the list of the ‘varieties of ministries and gifts’ that God provided (1 Cor. 12:4, 5, 28), yet such abilities were not inconsequential, otherwise they would not have been bestowed on the apostles and older men forming the governing body. How these men acted as a body is evident in the way they resolved the problem of food distribution by appointing a committee of qualified men to care for the matter; by their dispatching of Peter and John to Samaria to aid the new disciples there; by their action, as a body in conjunction with other elders, in sending out four "leading men," including the apostle Paul, to carry to Antioch their decision regarding the Gentile converts to Christianity; and by their counseling Paul as to the procedure he should follow among the Jews in Jerusalem.—Acts 6:1-6; 8:14; 15:1, 2, 22-32; 21:17-26.
The resurrected Jesus Christ is the heavenly Governor of his congregation of spiritual Israelites on earth. He is the one to whom the words quoted from Micah 5:2 apply: "And you, O Bethlehem of the land of Judah, are by no means the most insignificant city among the governors of Judah; for out of you will come forth a governing one [Gr., he·gou´me·nos], who will shepherd my people, Israel." (Matt. 2:6) By means of holy spirit and by the visible governing body composed of elders "governing" or "taking the lead" (Gr., he·gou·me´non) according to God’s written Word, Jesus Christ governs the worldwide group of Jehovah’s witnesses on earth today.—Heb. 13:17, Interlinear; also NewWorldTranslationoftheChristianGreekScriptures, of 1950.
From this we see that the term "governing body" is as appropriate, fitting and Scriptural as any for referring to that body of elders entrusted with the spiritual oversight of Jehovah’s Christian witnesses today.
You can't reason with Jehovah's Witnesses who come to your door because dialogue is out of the question with people who have a dump-truck religion.
They have a load; they drive in and dump it; they're outta there.
The delivery of their words completes their mission. It is not connected to your response.
The good they do lies in delivery, not in consumption. That is their understanding of "love thy neighbor as thyself."
They are delighted when you agree with them, and equally satisfied, if not happy, if you respond negatively.
That only helps them to become martyrs suffering "for righteousness sake."
Give up hopes of dialogue. You can't win, and in their minds they can't lose. "No dark is so dark as the darkness of a mind that is closed."
