JW view of Worship is the problem

by Amazing 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  In some private discussions with ex-JWs over the years, I have boiled down some of the disagreements to a different view of what worship is or is not. This view often unwittingly affects ex-JWs, and underpins their arguments, even though they do not realize it.

  To a JW, worship of Jehovah is done by going out door-to-door, attending meetings, commenting, singing, and prayer. These are acts only done to and for Jehovah.

  To a Protestant, going door-to-door is nice, vene being at Church is nice, but not worship. Singing and prayer are acts of worship, particular what is said to God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

  To a Catholic, prayer of itself is not worship, because one can talk to the Saints who have passed on to Heaven, which include St. Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ. However, celebrating Mass, with the ritual and singing and the type of prayers to God are worship.

  So, when a JW leaves the Watchtower Society, they often carry with them this concept that any prayer must constitute worship. Thus, ex-JWs will insist that Catholics worship Blessed Mary because they talk to her in prayer ... or that Catholics are bad because they talk to other Saints or dead relatives. yet, for Catholics, communion with the Saints is actually part of the confession of faith that dates back to the first century ... (one can find this in various forms of the Apostle's Creed).

  I am not suggesting that Catholics are right or worng in this ... but that the basic paradigm is often a cause of disagreement because ex-JWs fails to completely drop Watchtower paradigms as well as they through they did ... and Catholics, like most Protestants, do not care to really understand JWs.

  Jim Whitney
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  Outaservice

  One little correction Jim. I don't think that worship to a JW could have anything to do with 'singing'! God, would have to be over in the corner of the Universe 'pukeing' if that kind of music was directed to him.

  Outaservice
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  Satanus

  True. As well, they think that if you recognise another entity which may fall into a god category, they think that you are automatically worshipping it.

  A side point: , i have fallen into some concepts that fit w the catholic, ie, dead relatives to whom i turn at times. Conversely, i highly doubt that catholic saints remain for millenia. They either move on to higher levels, or incarnate again.

  S
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  james_woods

  Jim, I think you are right on target with this.

  It occurs to me that the Witnesses have a very "jewish" philosophy...in that "worship" is still kind of attached to some form of "sacrifice". I think that may be why they view all the "works" of service, meetings, study, etc...as worship, like you say. Sort of a modern day version of pigeons and young lambs.

  Maybe this is also why they are so in love with the "faith without works is dead" side of the NT, and more than a little contemptuous of the "saved by faith alone" side of things. Got to keep those lazy publishers "sacrificing" and "working", you know.

  They also hate the "once saved, always saved" as much as the Catholic prayer to the saints - again, I think, because they see themselves as continually re-approved or lost by continued "sacrificial works".

  My problem with the WTS viewpoint is that it leads to a sort of robotic (talmudic, if you will) ritualized work religion. Faith is reduced to just believing what the watchtower says at the moment.
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  OnTheWayOut

  One little correction Jim. I don't think that worship to a JW could have anything to do with 'singing'!

  Not true. I don't have the quote handy, but we are instructed to be
  at our seats for the song, and sing reverentially. My wife gets in the
  theocratic mindset by listening to CD's of Kingdom Songs (remember those
  lame singers put on a CD to show us how to sing reverentially?) or the
  melody without the words.

  Good observation. Amazing, the one thing I noticed right away when I
  stepped aside as an elder, but still interact with JW's- I stopped judging
  people. That's inside or outside the congregation. I was so stunned by
  my own discoveries, that I realized I could not pass any judgement on any
  others.

  At the KH, I didn't care what someone was wearing, or that they should have
  left home earlier to arrive earlier. I was okay with parents allowing their
  children to run and play a bit after the meeting. Outside the KH, I accepted
  that there are homosexuals, people who fight for their country, religious zealouts
  that believe something else. I had the freedom to do what I wanted and others
  do, too. Only the WTS was taking away my freedoms, so how can I judge
  others.

  Your comments about the mindset of ex-JW's- true enough. You have to
  break yourself of their way of thinking. I still (as a fader with an active wife)
  find myself being repelled by XMAS songs on the radio or ghosts in a commercial.
  I still turn away from anything with any religious nature. I will get there.
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  Undecided

  To me religion is just our imagination trying to deal with what we can't understand about life and the universe, and especially death. It is probably good for some people to give them peace but for others it's a reason for war and death to those who don't accept their God. I think religion has caused more trouble than good down through the ages. I've have decided to just wait and see what happens at death, if anything.

  Ken P.
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  XBEHERE

  Jim,

  Good observation. For JW's being spiritual is based on quantity of works, how much you do for Jah. JWs may deny it but isnt it true that the ones that pioneer, dont miss any meetings, comment frequently, arrive early, etc. etc are the ones that are considered exemplary? I imagine when I step aside as an elder, hopefully soon, that I can cope with not doing so much. Silly JW's trying to earn salvation which the bible clearly states is a free gift.
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  LittleToe

  Jim:

  ... and Catholics, like most Protestants, do not care to really understand JWs.

  There's a lot of truth in that statement. They have enough on their plate dealing with life without caring a whit about a minority sect that bothers them occasionally on a Saturday morning. So much for them rousing up "Babylon the Great" against them

  Ken:

  ...but for others it's a reason for war and death to those who don't accept their God.

  Since such folks are in the minority, that has to be about the weakest excuse I've ever heard for not enjoying the religious side of our humanity

  (just stirring the pot a little, with tongue in cheek)
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  done4good

  Faith is reduced to just believing what the watchtower says at the moment.

  Sad, but true.

  j
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  lighthouse19something

  I'm attending a church that places importance on praise and worship. They consider music, dance, prayer, offerings, bible reading, and 'activly' listening are all worship.

  The jws taught me field. service, meeting attendence, personal study, kingdom songs,and prayer were worship. The kh appears very dull compared to the full gospel church I attend now .