What is the deal with Moses? A rant on absurdity in the Bible.

by Morocco 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Justahuman24

  I'm really getting into it, aren't I? lol

  Well, the most obvious reason that God didn't choose to have David be persecuted by his enemies was stated by David himself. He asked not to fall on the hands of humans because they wouldn't be as merciful as God is. So, if David were to have been persecuted by his enemies as his punishment, then he could've died. And what do you think would've happened if David had died? God's promise of a Messiah wouldn't have been fulfilled in him.

  justahuman - but super nonetheless
• 

  jaguarbass

  If you want to be a bible thumper, you cant really read the bible and think about it. Because it is nonsense and the bible thumpers dont read the whole bible. They only read selected ,hand fed ,feel good verses. What you have to do is say "Jeeeeesus saves" and if its in the bible, God said it, and I believe it. Do not go beyond these simple phrases and you will be a good Christian. Keep it simple.
• 

  Morocco

  Justahuman24: First, beginning in Ex. 32:2-5, it says that “2 Aaron answered them, "Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me." 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, "These are your gods, [b] O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt." 5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." So It was Aaron's idea where to get the materials, it was Aaron who “made it into an idol”, and it was Aaron who even built an alter. It was Aaron's idea. You do however make a good point about the Levites, but that further proves my point; genocide is a regular thing with God, or Moses, or whoever says they speak for God. Why weren't the Levites punished? Heck, why would ANY leader punish that kind of loyalty to HIMSELF – that's why the Levites were blessed by the Lord (Moses) because they showed loyalty to Moses above their own family. Kill your family with swords because God told me to tell you. That's absurd.
• 

  Morocco

  sorry if i sound mean :\
• 

  Stealth

  I still think the biggest "sin" was not the counting itself, but not offering sacrifices when the census was takn as God had told Moses.

  So god had to kill 70,000 humans in order to teach king David a lesson on killing some animals before doing the counting? Okay, that works well with the god is a sadistic bastard theory.

  Well, the most obvious reason that God didn't choose to have David be persecuted by his enemies was stated by David himself.

  First god did not choose, he gave David a choice. Why would god give David a choice if he was not prepared to go through with? It was David who choose to have 70,000 humans killed in order to save his own hide.

  He asked not to fall on the hands of humans because they wouldn't be as merciful as God is.

  Sure, killing 70,000 of his own people, that may beat Sadam's record, real merciful he his alright.

  So, if David were to have been persecuted by his enemies as his punishment, then he could've died. And what do you think would've happened if David had died?

  The same thing that would have happened if Abraham would have went through and killed his only seed Isaac, but god stopped him, just as he could have saved David after his 3 month run.

  God's promise of a Messiah wouldn't have been fulfilled in him.

  Yes it could have, it said that he would be on the run from his enimies, god could have saved him just like Isaac and the promise would still be fullfilled. Sound like David was lacking in faith that god would protect him, or he was a pussy.
• 

  Justahuman24

  Morocco,

  again, it wasn't Aaron's idea. THE PEOPLE asked him to build a god for them. Granted, Aaron was at fault. I'm not saying he wasn't free of guilt. Even Moses, his brother, asked him why he allowed this to happen. But it could be that Aaron was afraid that the people would hurt him if he didn't do it bcz AGAIN, THE PEOPLE asked HIM to do it. He probably just gave in to the pressure of the people.

  Someone else also mentioned that the people were wrongly punished because they hadn't been given the tablet with the commandments so they didn't know it was wrong to make a false god. But Ex. 20:3 says: You must not have any other gods against my face. True. The people hadn't received the tablets yet but they had been already told the Ten Commandments. They knew not to do that yet they did.

  Justahuman - but super nonetheless
• 

  Morocco

  justahuman24: I now see what you're saying. Yeah, it didn't originate with Aaron, but he sure as shoot did all the footwork and went that extra mile for the people. I'm sure it was peer pressure that he caved under, but my point is he wasn't punished. The Bible is unfair on that account. Good point about the ten commandments though. Moving on to that other subject; someone explain to me why it was so bad to take a census? I haven't read this account and you've all got me interested in it.
• 

  choosing life

  Sometimes I wonder if these men who wrote the Bible are explaining their own actions using God as an excuse. Was God really like this or was he just their excuse for their actions? We all have our own ideas about what God is like, maybe they did too. Did God create these stories or did man? We still see people today use religion to excuse their behavior.

  Example: Does a loving God want us to never speak to our loved ones again if they have different beliefs than we do? Or is this the creation of some men?
• 

  Sad emo

  Interesting discussion here guys.

  Just throwing a thought to the discussion between morocco and justahuman about Aaron here:

  Do you think that Aaron not being punished might come down to God 'seeing the intention of the heart'? The people wanted a golden calf, so fair enough Aaron buckled and made one for them, but look at what he said - "Tomorrow we'll have a fetstival to the LORD" - Aaron still had God at the heart of his worship whereas the people were actually worshipping the calf itself by saying "this IS the God who brought you out of Egypt"

  So, if David were to have been persecuted by his enemies as his punishment, then he could've died. And what do you think would've happened if David had died?

  I suspect what justahuman is getting at here is that the entire nation would have been wiped out - rather than the ***'mere'*** 70,000
• 

  New Worldly Translation

  Someone else also mentioned that the people were wrongly punished because they hadn't been given the tablet with the commandments so they didn't know it was wrong to make a false god. But Ex. 20:3 says: You must not have any other gods against my face. True. The people hadn't received the tablets yet but they had been already told the Ten Commandments. They knew not to do that yet they did.

  You're quite incorrect. If you read chapter 20 and the previous chapter you'll see that it's a seperate commentary of the same incident of Moses receiving the commandments. The Israelites had only been out of Egypt a few months when this incident allegedly occurred and had no idea about the standards of their new god. Chapter 32 is kind of funny actually because it has Moses up and down the mountain like an olympic athlete.

  I'm afraid you're one of those sort of people who read the bible in a pick 'n' mix fashion and don't actually study it in a scholarly way. When I first started to really study the bible I took every page of the bible out of the binding, cut out every seperate commentary or incident, put everything in chronological order and grouped seperate chapters describing the same story together. If you've got too much time on your hands like I had you could try it. It gives a totally new view on the scriptures.

  As regards Aaron and the Levites being spared during the golden calf incident it was to be expected. Through the whole history of the Israelites during the Exodus and some time after it was a priest run civilization. You could say the priestly families had a pretty good racket going as they held the coffers, were the best fed, dressed and protected and all because they had a mystical special relationship with the almighty that the ordinary people couldn't attain to. Only they could assuage god's anger, impart his commandments or execute his wrath and so the people were held in their thrall.