by jambon1 29 Replies latest jw friends
My Dad said there was more comraderie among the brothers in the 60s and 70s. People got together more socially, they did more together.
You could get to know others by volunteering in the kitchens, food prep etc.
Now it's cold and formal, you turn up, you sit down and you leave - the only time you get thousands of people together in one place and it turns out to be a reducation center.
An issue that comes up from time to time is the notion that C.T.Russell was kind of "OK" but that Rutherford was the madman that took it all in the wrong direction. I totally disagree.
I for one say that C.T. himself was also a psychopathic egomaniac with delusions of God-like grandiosity. "I am just like a jellyfish - I reach out and touch this one or that one". "an enema a day keeps the doctor away". "buy my futuristic miracle wheat".
Recall that the first of the false prophecies was in fact 1874 which C.T. and his cronies hijacked from the failed Millerites. Then came 1914, 1918, and so on.
But I do agree that 1975 marked a big turn for the worse - the witnesses stopped being a pretty decent bunch of people (at least to one another) in the aftermath of the failure of the date and the big apostacy witchhunt shortly thereafter.
It went upside down in 1966. Growth based on a lie is extremely fragile growth. Since 1935 all growth and retention was based on promised rewards never delivered to even one person. Since 1966 the modern Society went big time into the promotion of impending doom.
The promised reward since 1935 is immortality, yet we see Witness funerals every day. They see this too.
After 1975 the Society had no credibility in or out of Bethel. The feelings of discontent among the members went to the highest levels and naturally another purge was necessary. After every purge, the meek and peaceful people fold and leave. Their kind natures made them poor fighters. This leaves the roughshod hardliners in power every time.
The Society is a business built on promotion, not attraction. That promotion involves dishonest recruiting practices, fantasy promises, and after commitment, enforced compliance. These guys have thought police. This is a serious high control group.
I understand willing compliance on many subjects is something seen less and less in the group and seems to be dying with the very old and walking away with the next two generations. All that remains around the hardline core, are social Witnesses and they're not enthused about making deep, painful, sacrifices.
I'd say in the 1870s when it all first started. They were wrong then and they've been getting it wrong for over 130 years.
My father in law often tells me that things were quite different in the 50's and 60's. There wasn't the strangle-hold(?) we see today. They had the freedom to have bible discussions and do things a little more liberally. The rank and file were genuinely happy.
The start of Knorr's presidency in 1942 marked the beginning of 50 years of solid - sometimes impressive - growth. With the benefit of hindsight, even the 1975 debacle can be seen to have had only a temporary effect on membership increase. '75 was not the real watershed in the Society's history, I believe that 1995 will come to be seen as such. Why?
In December 1992 the Society lost it's 'Oracle'. Fred Franz was baptized during the Russell era, moved to Brooklyn Bethel in 1920 and stayed there until his death over 70 years later. 1993 would have looked bleak without him but worse was to come - the Internet! It seems the Society did not at first realise the threat that faced them. Free access to such huge amounts of uncensored information - what a nightmare. 1994 brought it's own problems. Here we were 80 years on from 1914 and still no end in sight, many long to mid-term dubs are restless.
1995. It all comes to a head. The Watchtower finally dismantles it's long held 'Generation' doctrine. One of the big, juicy carrots is gone - time to use the 'stick' a little bit more!
Ten to twenty years from now I think it will be clear that the Watchtower's fall began in 1995. I'm sure it will take decades to crumble into true sterility but it will. Just something positive to think about at the start of 2007.
Happy New Year everyone!
Hello Jambom,
When they went wrong is relative to where you are and where you have been. If you are talking about their predictions for the future, they were wrong from the start in the 1870's. If you are talking about their doctrine they were wrong from the start in the 1870's. If you are talking about when did many of the older people on this board in mass start questioning the WT's status as God's spokesman, that would be about 1976. If you are talking about those who lived the religion and served out of love, things went wrong with the WT's handling of dissidence in the early 1980's. If you are talking about the more youthful on this board or perhaps yourself, when the WT went wrong is more relative to your personal experience that caused you to start to question. Basically they were wrong from the start. Truth is not a dogma. Spirituality is not an affiliation. And Religion is a distraction from the connection it claims to promote. They were wrong from the moment they sensed a need to disseminate their beliefs. STeve
It was a lie when it began in 1870, for many it became a nice social club and it still is even if you do not beleive in it anymore.
I truly beleive all the JW that have some common sense know that most of the doctrines ( such as blood-1914/607-
144k-other sheep- jesus mediator) are not backed up by the scriptures, but the society has them by the coglionis
thru the DF threat and fear of losing at all.
For me it was after the 1975 disaster. I was a very strong beleiver and teacher in that. I remember being at Montreal and getting the book with the date in it. The buzz at the convention was unbeleivable. When I realized that it was not going to happen it began to unravel for me. I made up my mind never to be that dogmatic again and it has only gotten better for me since then. I think definately it was the end of 1979. Before that people were much happier and really had no doubts. The elders were not watching every thing you did. When I was young there were so many things that you could do without getting disfellowshipped. Now the paranoia of the society and their fear of apostates contaminating others seems to have taken over. You can not beleive the things that they teach at kingdumb ministry schools for the elders, and ask the elders to do. They the GB are scared to death of the contamination. And they show it in the way that they want elders to act. I can count literally hundreds of people that I knew over the years that are gone from the Watchtower now. I only wish that I was one of them earlier but I guess then was not the time.
The start of Knorr's presidency in 1942 marked the beginning of 50 years of solid - sometimes impressive - growth. With the benefit of hindsight, even the 1975 debacle can be seen to have had only a temporary effect on membership increase. '75 was not the real watershed in the Society's history, I believe that 1995 will come to be seen as such. Why?In December 1992 the Society lost it's 'Oracle'. Fred Franz was baptized during the Russell era, moved to Brooklyn Bethel in 1920 and stayed there until his death over 70 years later. 1993 would have looked bleak without him but worse was to come - the Internet! It seems the Society did not at first realise the threat that faced them. Free access to such huge amounts of uncensored information - what a nightmare. 1994 brought it's own problems. Here we were 80 years on from 1914 and still no end in sight, many long to mid-term dubs are restless.
1995. It all comes to a head. The Watchtower finally dismantles it's long held 'Generation' doctrine. One of the big, juicy carrots is gone - time to use the 'stick' a little bit more!
Ten to twenty years from now I think it will be clear that the Watchtower's fall began in 1995. I'm sure it will take decades to crumble into true sterility but it will. Just something positive to think about at the start of 2007.
Pretty much have to agree, this and the 2000 blood fractions turn around.
