Integrating emotion and intellect ..

by Introspection 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  Introspection

  I was thinking about this the other day, and I've basically been taking the attitude of "don't say too much to them, or they'll flip." Some balance is called for of course, but I think I've been leaning too much to one side, in that my intellect is kind of shoved in the background because I am so worried about hurting people's feelings. In a way I guess this wouldn't be honest, either. In the end, I may not be doing them any favors but maybe even allowing some harm.

  While I'm interested in talking to witnesses, being "balanced" in this way is certainly a good general goal to strive for. I guess one way to look at it is that there's a tendancy to consider the other person's personality, in that they may be very emotional. (especially when it comes to something like religion) Frankly, people you talk to may not be so balanced.

  So one question that comes to mind is what is emotion? I'd like to pose this question to those on the board who are aware of different theories about it, in terms of psychology and other formal systematic studies. (which, I suppose would be a type of psychology anyway)

  Also, I'd also be interested in understanding the emotional dynamics in interpersonal communication. I tend to do pretty well on my own and ideas from books don't throw me off balance, but dealing with people is always more complicated.

  Now I will certainly do a bit of reading and research myself, but since we do have some mental health professionals and other people who are well read I am hoping to get some ideas to start with. Anyways, it is a good topic for discussion yah?
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  unclebruce

  Good post Introspection,

  Engage a JW's intellect whilst avoiding an emotional reponce? Nice thought, good luck and don't forget the valium. Most JW's I know are so #^$&ED up in the head the only way I can stop them blowing a spiritual fuse is avoiding the subject altogether. When I dared point out a touch of knowledge about Paulian apostacy my Elder father in law went ballistic .. "you've been reading apostate books!" "as far as I know Baigent and Leigh were never witnesses" says I .. "YES YOU HAVE! YOU'VE BEEN READING APOSTATE BOOKS!" mmm "maybe" .. my doctrate in psyciatry (and spelling) hasn't arrived in the mail yet so for the sake of both our hearts I'm letting the sleepy dog lie.

  Sorry if you were expecting a responce with more intellectual rigor but I'm all out of big words (for explaining little ideas :) As for a balance witness .. when I was a JW that meant an evenly loaded bookbag and a firm grip on the handlebars.

  cheers, unclebruce.

  PS: There are a number a great books about cult mind control and if an even handed one like Steve Hassans "Combatting Cult Mind Control" fell accross the path of your average JW .. kingdom halls would empty quicker than they could shout DEMONISED APOSTATE!
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  Introspection

  PS: There are a number a great books about cult mind control and if an even handed one like Steve Hassans "Combatting Cult Mind Control" fell accross the path of your average JW .. kingdom halls would empty quicker than they could shout DEMONISED APOSTATE!

  Wouldn't they just throw it away or have a burning ceremony?

  Seriously, I certainly recognize the need to be selective.. I suppose there isn't much we can do for some, I'd sooner attempt an exorcism than try to reach someone who is just totally shut down. But hopefully there is something out there which lays it out in a comprehensive way. (not specifically mind control, though for JWs it is no doubt helpful)
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  unclebruce

  Wouldn't they just throw it away or have a burning ceremony?

  Well maybe Introspection but that "new personality overlayer' has its limits and most JW's have nagging doubts of one sort or another. I left school to become a regular pioneer at 15 years of age yet in quiet desperation sought out books about cults and watchtower history in numerous library's (perhaps I'm of an overly suspicious untrusting nature but eventually I started to find what I was looking for .. in christian bookshops .. Steve Hassans book blew my mind .. finally the jigsaw of cult indocrination coupled with control freak leadership made perfect sence as an explaination for how the WBTS takes over ones life) The good thing about Steves book is that it attacks the problem at the oblique angle of an expose of the Moonies.

  Despite what I said about keeping my mouth shut arround my nervious relies, when thinking of the zombies still trapped (like SirFRED) never give up hope, words are very powerful and the most insignificant throw away remark can have a profound affect. (like me sarcastically telling my sister the Mormons baptise people within 3 weeks of contact .. silly girl took them up on it and was assigned a husband and home planet in just 19 days) or what about the time a nasty Christodelphian man told me Satan was no ventriloquist and I couldn't prove he was As JW's go from door to door more and more seeds of doubt are planted .. that's it! More door knocking campaigns that's the cure!

  unclebruce
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  Preston

  Hi Introspection, I think it's kind of hard to define emotion. It is defined by a variety of physical and psychological aspects that make everyone whole and unique. From a psychological standpoint emotion is defined as "a reaction involving certain physiological changes, such as an accelerated or retarded pulse rate, the diminished or increased activities of certain glands, or a change in body temperature, which stimulate the individual, or some component part of his or her body, to further activity. The three primary reactions of this type are anger, love, and fear, which occur either as an immediate response to external stimuli or are the result of an indirect subjective process, such as memory, association, or introspection."(Encarta) Since your question has led to several responses regarding talking to Jehovah's witnesses I think I can tell you a little from my own experience. When I was a Witness I was approached by several people much smarter than I was with reference to theology. No matter how well crafted they presented their views I just couldn't accept anything otherwise. It was like they were speaking to me in a language that was too different than what I was use to in my level of spiritual understanding, and I think that's the case with many JW's today. It’s hard to present complex discussions that analyze several of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's not compatible. It's like taking an Athelon CPU and putting it on any old Motherboard. It's just not compatible. It's also spurred on by this fear (like in the definition) of being presented with something from another theological perspective. Perspective isn't really an internal thing with Jehovah's Witnesses. When I was a JW I was fearful of being in a bookstore and reading the secular works of various theologians knowing of how different their points would become, but I later made an effort only because I wanted, at the very least, some kind of reinforcement for my beliefs outside of what the WBTS was presenting. I think that's the kicker in terms of your question regarding balance. Many JW's want reinforcement for their beliefs, and to be perfectly blunt, they do teach some things, not all, which are reinforced in the belief systems of theologians, scientists, skeptics, historians, and so forth. We get so caught up in how the WBTS is wrong, wrong, wrong in so many areas I don't think we spend enough time referring to what is agreeable (I wholeheartedly agree with their teaching on Hell, for example). So find the balance with reinforcement and the challenge to test one's belief system and I think it will be easier to discuss these things.
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  ashitaka

  First of all, to preston, is the pic under your name smelling his armpit? (Sorry, that's a good natured jibe.) Thanks, I got a good laugh out of it.

  On a more serious note, reaching them emotionally is the only way to get through to them. You have to find something personally important to them to speak to them about, and then wait for an opportunity to introduce something positive. Anything they perceive as an attack will be responded to in the like.

  I think that letting them talk (and gripe) more than you is the first step. Then making your answers or advice ambiguous. Not all people could handle finding out about the JW-Nazi stuff, or the NGO stuff. It would crush them and their faith in God totally, or (and this is more likely) scream at you, calling you an apostate and devil, and they would never talk to you again. Remember, we don't want to beat them to death with what we've found out. I know that as for myself, finding the truth about 607bce, and the Nazi stuff put me into a depression. I couldn't find answers to anything and I became very close to calling myself an atheist for awhile.

  I guess we just have to let them speak, and we can answer intelligently as we can, hoping for an open mind, otherwise there's no other way to teach them.

  Ashitaka

  "I pray that I may never see the desert again-hear me God."-Robert Bolt
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  unclebruce

  Well said Preston and Ashitica,

  (glad intro got some intellectual imput) There is ground breaking research going on with regard to the role emotions play in intellect. Scientists developing a new generation super computers came up against a snag. Intelligence as we have come to know and love it won't work without emotional imput so they are desperate to devise ways of somehow getting 'feeling' into their machines.

  Sure Alan and other serious posters try to post annalitically with little emotion showing through but mark my words it's just a game high brow chaps play .. dig a little and the most serious methodical poster is a bundle of nervous energy and pent up emotion ;)

  unc, desperately hoping this purely emotional responce sounds coherent and makes a modicom of sence.
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  Satanus

  Introspection

  Asking jws the right questions is effective. It takes a lot of patience. If one questions doesn't work, try another one. The answer to one question leads to another question. When they get upset, just apoligise and say something positive, then continue later. Jws love answering questions.

  S
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  Introspection

  Thanks for the response everybody.

  Unc,

  As JW's go from door to door more and more seeds of doubt are planted .. that's it! More door knocking campaigns that's the cure!

  Actually, I have to say that is the case for me! Of course, I do live in northern California, and you do have a lot of different perspectives here.. But perhaps even one different perspective would make them think, even if it is very similar. Hopefully they don't go from one narrow belief system to another, though.

  Saint, that's a good call, of course we were even taught that in TMS eh? I don't think they exactly trust me though. I used to be room mates with an elder and a guy who I think is now a MS, and I think the elder has a clue that I'm not telling them a lot of stuff. (I told them I went on a month long meditation retreat) I'm thinking I can start with my other friend, who I think is more receptive with some basic down to earth questions though. Good reminder.

  Preston it is good to start with some common ground, another great suggestion. Thanks.

  Ashitaka, I've been hoping to let them speak, but they don't speak very much because there's a degree of apprehension. When they moved out a friend of mine who's a theology student was moving in, and he had a little talk with the elder and then I came home, and while I didn't say anything related to the bible my friend thought he was scared to death lol.. Oh well. BTW, what does your name mean?
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  Satanus

  introspection

  You are in a tricky situation. I was in the same for a year, from when i found out god didn't direct them till i was dfd.I also worked with and for jws. I used to pose them questions to get them to think. It was a stressful year.

  The month long meditation retreat you went on, was it vipassana? This was recommended to me, but when i saw the schedule, i decided it was too heavy for me. Anyway, if it was, then i would be interested in getting your opinions of the experience. How did it effect your view of jw's, yourself, reality; stuff like that. If you want, i can email you and you can answer me back.

  S