Good topic. A few comments.
<Mr Moe:
I disagree with your assumptions that most JW's lead a double life. Sure, there are some that do - mostly youths - but in the congregation where I grew up and surrounding congregations the vast majority were good people and upstanding citizens of the community.
Most JW's have problems and they are all human. Perhaps you witnessed heavy drinking because this was a product of mind control and a way of rebelling. And 99% of the time a JW living a double life gets caught and corrected.>
Moe, as I see it, your view of JW's is based primarily on your own experiences in your own community. I used to say something similar to your comments in this topic when my experiences led me to believe that JW's in general were good people and only a few were jerks. Now I know that my beliefs about JW's in general would have been quite different had I grew up under different circumstances. Thus the opposing view of others here. They have experienced JW's quite differently than you. And to say that "mostly youths" are leading a double life cannot be qualified. The youths just haven't learned how to protect themselves from the conduct police. That comes with time. The best that you can do is draw conclusions about the JW's in your community that you have interaction with. They will not be representative of JW's in general.
It is likely that your community has a particular "feel" to it and people of like mind tend to live there. If you were to take a cross section of the general community, not just JW's, and compare that to a cross section from another community, you may draw conclusions about whether your community is "good" as compared to another. But it may not be very accurate and probably not fair to those who may match your idea of good who live in the other community. The JW's you know may be generally "good" because they live in your community which is generally "good". It doesn't really matter that they are JW's, even though the WTS likes to use that type of reasoning to prove that they improve peoples lives. But where is the data to prove that is the real case? The WTS does not collect such data becaus they know the results will not be supportive of their particular brand of "goodness".
<Esmerelda:
You show me a truly happy JW and I'll show you someone who is so in denial about reality that they also probably still believe that Mickey Mouse really lives in Disneyworld.>
Well, Es, I was a truly happy JW. It was only a matter of circumstance for me. I did not know of the corruption and had not been exposed to the reality of the WTS. It wasn't that I was in denial about it. I just dodn't KNOW it existed. When the circumstances in my family changed I became aware of the reality I had not known of before. I was unable to remain a happy witness, or a sad witness for that matter, and left. But while I was happy as a witness I do not think I was in denial. Just uninformed, ignorant.
<MegaDude
In dealing with JWs, I have found the best way to open a dialogue and keep lines of communication open is simply to keep asking questions. I put all the burden of *proving* the truth squarely on the JW. By asking questions, the hapless Dub feels duty-bound to answer them. (Me: I don't understand. How can it be the truth when you said in your literature...(fill in the blank) I've introduced all sorts of "apostate" information to Jehovah's Witnesses that they read because they felt I wasn't trying to convince them of anything. I let them feel in control. You'd be amazed how you can lead them right down a *planned path* of logic by simply feeding them questions.>
This does not work in my case. I am given no room to question anything under any circumstances. They assume I have an alterior motive and such a backdoor approach is fended off with "I don't want to talk about that". I can occassionally say something like "I'm glad you like that movie (or music or book, whatever), but did you notice that it was not produced by the Witnesses? What does that mean? How can anything good come from "worldly" people who are condemned to death? But any referrences to their publications or the Bible turns them off immediately. Perhaps you are not in the same "class" as some of the rest of us, the "apostate class". They are instructed by their elders to not discusss anything "spiritual" with me and will not allow me to do it. But, if you're an unbelieving husband, or a co-worker, even a ridiculer, they will allow you to address them in the manner you propose. But we "apostates" have to take other approaches.
To Tallyman,
I agree that a frontal attack may be helpful at times but usually not in person, until after a crack in their paradigm has already been opened. Once a "doubter" gets here you may be able to take your approach, depending on the personality of the individual. But I agree with Moe and the others that a "honey" approach is probably better with your "loyal" family members and friends. You run the risk of them cutting you off completely if you attack their precious beliefs head on. Be careful and thoughtful.
Sean
