In the WT's Defence (page 2)

Surfrusty

I don't know if I would want to defend the WT on most subjects brought up here. I think on some things some of the posters here have a point. And I agree, some things I don't think I could defend or would even be inclined to try. But on another level your post hits the nail on the head when you brought up the issue of cognitive dissonance. I believe many on this forum are suffering from it big time and are looking for nothing but validation here. And of course it would be almost impossible to convince someone of this, it would be way too painful. Hence any WT apologists would not be welcome. If you aren't suffering from severe CD then I think many people, myself included, would find this forum generally very bitter, negative, unproductive and anarchist even if you agree with alot of the overall things being said.

Confession

I like this suggestion. I too encourage more lurking JWs to come out in support of the organization in this forum. We certainly do see it from time to time.

It probably is true that former apologists have either become ex-JWs or simply found it difficult to continue defending them. But, just as there are new ex-JWs arriving here every day, it makes sense that there would also be new active JWs, without knowledge of the facts, who stumble onto this site.

Dissent is healthy--on both sides.

tall penguin

"I see a tendency to cognitive dissonance by board members represented in their posts."

Could you explain this please? I'm curious to know what it is you see as cognitive dissonance here on the board.

tall penguin

J-ex-W

brought up the issue of cognitive dissonance. I believe many on this forum are suffering from it big time and are looking for nothing but validation here.

Of course a lot of posters here have cognitive dissonance. They are coming out of a situation that creates cognitive dissonance, and many are in the process of redefining where their own value/ belief systems lie--without the noise of WTS propoganda overrriding their own abilities to think and decide. Cognitive dissonance does not resolve overnight but over time and with much concerted, conscious effort. Some would be benefitted by a JW vs. JWD exchange, in moving along this process. Others would find it unhelpful and choose to ignore it, depending on how where in the process of redefining they already are.

So...if anyone wants to...let the sparring begin. [Those who prefer quieter healing just won't tune in.]

Terry

JW's are under a lot of pressure within themselves to keep up the appearance of belief in things which clash with common sense, reality and factual history. It takes a lot of energy and support to remain neurotically primed at all moments of the day!

Further, it is deeply depressing to parade among your fellow man as the oddball with the quirky beliefs; obstinate and yet pleading your case like courtroom lawyer without making the jury yawn.

Where can you get an audience to stimulate your delusional state and allow you to purge yourself of these encumbrances? Why, by taking on your opposite number; the enemy: apostates; that's where!

By defending extraordinarly cartoonish notions of the universe passionately the average JW can self-hypnotize and give a good witness at the same time!!

Then, there is the EGO.

JW males have a healthy ego. They get to bully with their bible and babble and bellow bellicose blather when they take us on here at JWD.

It puffs them up like blood rushing to their downsized weiner!

But, in reality; it is sad. We are debating ourselves (from long ago) in a kind of echoing timewarp. When we burst their bubble it is our own we hear pop from a distance!

Belief in the absurd is the dizzying dance of the dutifully demented. The music here they'll not find to their liking.

Surfrusty

Cognitive dissonance is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, which can be defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior; in other words, it is the uncomfortable tension that comes from holding two conflicting thoughts at the same time. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive.

This is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.

Dissonance increases with:

* The importance of the subject to us.
* How strongly the dissonant thoughts conflict.
* Our inability to rationalize and explain away the conflict.

Dissonance is often strong when we believe something about ourselves and then do something against that belief. If I believe I am good but do something bad, then the discomfort I feel as a result is cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful motivator which will often lead us to change one or other of the conflicting belief or action. The discomfort often feels like a tension between the two opposing thoughts. To release the tension we can take one of three actions:

* Change our behavior.
* Justify our behavior by changing the conflicting cognition.
* Justify our behavior by adding new cognitions.

Dissonance is most powerful when it is about our self-image. Feelings of foolishness, immorality and so on (including internal projections during decision-making) are dissonance in action.

If an action has been completed and cannot be undone, then the after-the-fact dissonance compels us to change our beliefs. If beliefs are moved, then the dissonance appears during decision-making, forcing us to take actions we would not have taken before.

Just some things I found online. Put more simply, if a guys thinks it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage then proceeds to do so, the next day he'll probably start questioning the validity of his belief that fornication is wrong. Once he has convinced himself that his previously held belief was wrong or baseless then the mental conflict is reduced or eliminated. No more cognitive dissonance. The same can happen with JW's. If I have a wrong desire or have acted on one that creates conglict or dissonance. The mind can't accept that. So what is it that tells me that the desire or action is wrong? God? The Bible? The WTS? Then the subconscience starts looking for holes in your belief in God, The Bible or the WTS latching onto whatever will support this idea. Eventually after the value of those things is reduced no more dissonance.

kid-A

There are many Watchtower apologists that post here regularly, and if you are looking for exchanges between apologists and (the rest of us!!! lol)

just click on their names in the directory and dig up their topic histories:

Scotsman; PMJ; DefD; death_to_the_pixies; Oroborus, slimboyfat, and I'm sure others can think of other apologist poster names past and present.

edited to add: Dozy.

Surfrusty

"JW's are under a lot of pressure within themselves to keep up the appearance of belief in things which clash with common sense, reality and factual history. It takes a lot of energy and support to remain neurotically primed at all moments of the day!" True... But, only JW's suffer from CD? I believe there is alot of it flowing around here.

purplesofa

I have not read the posts

but I have thought about how the board has changed in the little time I have been here. People are more and more informed of the crap the WT has dished out..........the information is all over the net.

The hard work from early "onliners" is paying off.

I find that so many need healing, support, love.

The thinking part of what the WT has done is widely exposed on the net.

The emotional damage seems to be alot of peoples needs right now.

purps

tall penguin

Surfrusty, you gave a definition of cognitive dissonance and then in your next post stated "But, only JW's suffer from CD? I believe there is alot of it flowing around here."

Again, I ask for instances where you believe this to be true. Where do you see cognitive dissonance on this board?

tall penguin

In the WT's Defence

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