Is the watchtower in the red or planning for something ?

by 5go 43 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  frankiespeakin

  With reguard to the policy of everything strictly on a contribution basis to avoid paying ceasar(satan) any taxes:

  I think the men on the gb are getting very old and set in thier ways, they may have been given good council from other departments such as legal or accounting and went against it or they may have surrounded themselves with yes men to such an extent that no one would dare tell them thier policy was bad, thinking who are we to give the gb council on these matter because they are the chosen ones, jehovah direct them and any decision they make has jehovah's backing.

  They as a group suffer from nobody willing to give advice if it is not what the gb are already in favor of, lest they get the axe or demoted to a lessor position. They are in a rut with reguard to creativity in handling problems the organization faces, with no one feeling free to contridict the gb even if they have a good idea.

  I think we must remember that these old guys are surrounded by people that agree with them reguardless of wether it is a good or bad idea, so they have no one to consult with who feels free to speak his mind, they rarely step out into the real world but are sheltered in thier own little kingdom where they rule supreme, and no negative comments reach them about how they are handling things, only smiling faces, and pats on the back on a job well done.
• 

  bluesapphire

  I'm sure they're getting some good ideas from all of you guys. It'll be funny when this stuff is implemented and we know where they got the ideas.

  Hasn't this happened before?
• 

  Bstndance

  If they weren't so stupid as to proclaim the internet is evil, they could have saved so much money using the devil's tool. Put the WT study articles online and make the R&F print them out at home. Perhaps even charge a subscription fee. With an offshore server, they could avoid taxes.
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  Mikeus

  The numbers are down across the board, that's for sure. About the sales tax issue: I'm sure there are a lot of complications to the reasoning. One reason is common sense. The lower something costs, the more people will buy it. Plus when you tack on "plus tax" on something it feels more like a purchase than a donation, and people feel better about themselves when they donate rather than buy something.
• 

  jwfacts

  The average JW has always prided themselves on belonging to a "non profit" organization that does not "pass the plate" and is not financially greedy. Unfortunately the average JW is not educated or high enough in the corporate world to understand that God's company or not, a company needs a positive cash flow. Every piece of property (halls and bethels) requires cash to continue operating. No longer a book "selling" company, they will need to become more focused on other ways of raising money to ensure an consistent cash flow.
• 

  uwishufish

  By paying one tx wouldn't the publishing company's books be open to parousal by the athorities?
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  bobld

  Km Dec 2006.Question Box in part....Would it be appropriate to arrange yard sales or other fund-raising events to help the congregation........The 2 issue of the Wt August 1879,said about our refusal to imitate the churches and solicit funds:Zion's WT has,we beleive JEHOVAH for its backer,and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support......bah,bah.bah if god fails to provide necessary funds,we will understand it to be the time to suspend the publication.bah,bah,bahLet each one do just as he has resolved in his heart bah,bah GOD loves a cheerful giver...

  Contributions are not solicited;neither are they given with the idea of obtaining something in return.the end.

  So why do they request/demand funds by passing resolutions every six months.The resolution is in a form of a question, a vote is taken and also how many are present.Also it has to be passed and seconded.
• 

  james_woods

  Maybe I should say that I didn't mean to hijack the thread off into sales-tax land...(if it was me that did it) so, back to the original point of the thread...

  In the red? Yes, I think so as far as yearly cash flow is concerned. I think this is the net result of lower literature sales, which was always the root source of the society's wealth. Sales tax or no, I think the publishers are selling far fewer books and magazines, and those they do sell are pulling a lot less net profit. Based of course on outward signs, as nobody gets to see their secretive "real" books.

  Planning for something? You betcha. And it is not Armaggedon. They are going to sell all that Brooklyn Property, and probably even the New Jersey stuff, invest it in income-producing assets, and head for the hills of upper NY State with only a skeleton crew to post per-pay websites and cut CDroms. Like all smart businessmen, they see their core business falling down, and they are trying to restructure. Money can come from demand contributions from the congregations, Kingdom Hall loans and flips, assembly fees, etc. I will go out on a limb to say that these guys will refuse to subsidize even a branch office in a foreign country for very long if said branch cannot make a profit and feed it back to the head of the octopus.

  I remember clearly when the JW made it a big deal to be the world's cleanest religion in regard to soliciting money. It was considered anathema to even mention the contribution boxes from the platform (except when we were denouncing Christendom for passing the plate). And they pretty much held true to this tradition for the first 10 years I was there...in the 60s. They even made a point that they never had to ask for money because Jehovah provided...

  You could almost hear a pin drop when the first cry for money came from the CO right up there on the platform! It happened when the society was turning over the printing presses to the offset process and buying all the IBM typesetting stuff. 1971 or so. Later there came a shocking WT or Awake article openly proclaiming that "Jehovah's people should give freely".

  YIKES!!! Shades of the TV preachers...now I guess it is commonplace to money-grub all the time. But this hit our congregation in Oklahoma City as hard as I can imagine the change in "Generation" or maybe the "conscientous objector" stuff did in the 90s.
• 

  hillbilly

  Several things come to my mind...

  The WTBTS is still vested in some rapidly aging publishing and adminstrative/management strategies. The way they do "the lord's work" just costs a lot of money in today's market.

  Staffing a business that works "top down" like the WTBTS costs a ton of cash. They Old Boys wont adapt to a "flatter" modle to manage the operations. Information seems to be tightly controlled and productivity suffers the way Brooklyn runs thing. Guys like Randy Watters can atest to that... anyone who has ever consulted at Bethel or worked on larger construction projects knows this.

  The legal wrangling in the past was only a short-term solution to divorce the "business" from lawsuits that could arise as result of the "religion"... just not much work from the legal folks to itergrate the "work" very well.

  The assets are aging. All those MANN presses to the buildings they set in are aging. This all costs a ton of cash... at 2007 value. Back in the 60's with the cash rolling in from converts they could afford to expand. Membership is static, so the production capacity is underused.

  Real estate is real estate. Face it, Brooklyn isnt getting bigger. The assets have matured, the (JW conversion) market is tapped out. Time to sell the property and retire. Declare the preachin' to be over and do enough to keep the old timers around.

  I think the new model will be pushing a few CD's and running a smaller cult. Growth and menbership is down. Cash flow doesnt keep up with pay-out anymore.

  When the WT started sending Bethel-lites to law school their end, as a "religion" had started. Those company-trained lawyers will get rich and leave a small time, dying cult behind.

  ~Hill

  ~HIll
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  As much as I hate to see WT lawyers and honchos getting rich, I hope that
  Hillbilly is right. Bail out and sell out and leave behind a smaller cult.
  With that attitude, I can get my wife and mother out. I say I hope that's
  right, because I foresee the selling of land and changing venues. I think they
  are not ready to give up on recruiting and retaining. They just need to
  change directions.

  For now, they will focus on retention. The internet and ex-JW's are too
  ready to help their new recruits learn the truth and steer them away.
  After a long time of retention, they will have switched to a more
  mainstream-looking cult, then new methods of recruitment will be tried.

  This is my worst hope- focus on retention. I will have my work cut out
  for me, as they convince JW's that disobedience or doubt is the devil's doing.
  DDisDD