"You Knew The Score When You...."

by Englishman 10 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Englishman

  So many tragic stories here of lost family and friends due to the shunning policy of the WTBTS.

  Time and again we hear tales from newly DF'd and DA'd persons. How, maybe when out shopping, they have encountered an active JW who, before shunning them, has whispered hoarsely:"You knew the score when you did what you did..."

  But is this a fair argument? Think about it, if you had "Known the score" before you had joined, would you then have actually joined the witnesses?

  It occurs to me that we have basically 2 varieties of ex-JW's participating on this forum, many of whom were conned into joining up by feelings of hope and love and little common sense. How many, I wonder, had more than a glimmer of insight into the vile and un-scriptural disfellowshipping policies that would be put into force if they strayed? Would you have gone into baptism if you knew that DF'ing sword of Damocles would be forever hanging over you?

  Then again, were you a youngster who was dragged up in the faith? What voice did you ever have as to what choices would be yours? Bugger all, is my bet, your parents made your choices as per the instructions from the Boyz n' Brooklyn! You had sod-all say in the matter! So then, how can it be fair to say "You knew the score when you committed such and such a misdeed" if you most certainly did not "Know the score" when you joined?

  IMO that ammounts to a gross miscarriage of justice!

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  nelly136

  spawned in,
  I knew the score one week before I was dfd
  I was met at the doors of my works by the flasher mac brigade
  and given the date of the announcement, one week to apeal and
  the words...you realise that you wont be able to have any contact with your auntie nan etc...
  and as youve left home (like it was comfortable living there)
  you will no longer be able to have contact with your parents.

  Up until that day I thought that dfd people were allowed family contact, normal family stuff but no spiritual discussions,guess I wasnt paying enough attention eh!
  nelly
• 

  ISP

  The shunning policy of the WTS has some sort of scriptural basis...and is of course practiced by other groups like Scientologists.

  I don't think any of us got into the JW world knowing everything there was to know about everything......particularly the history, false proclamations of the end, the FDS etc. I am sure if these things were wider known many would not join. I was aware of the DF'ing rule and you tend to accept that it serves the purpose of keeping the congregation clean etc.

  There's no way that you would know how the rule is applied and what for. For example, take the DF'ing of Ray Franz. What was he DF'd for? Was that an offence when he was baptised? What about those that were DF'd for oral sex. Same for them. Its the shifting goal posts that present the problem.

  ISP
• 

  Nathan Natas

  My mom got involved while I was a young kid, soon after that dad left, so my angry mom was the voice of jehovah. Next time I'll choose my parents more carefully.

  Having said that, I think it is generally true that in life we have to make decisions on the basis of incomplete information AND we are 100% responsible for the decisions we make.

  At the time I decided to leave I felt that at least from now on I would be making MY mistakes, not someone else's.
• 

  bigboi

  Really you don't know the score.

  They never really explain to you all that is considered in the judicial process that leads to disciplinary actions. Neither are you told how subjective the process really is. There are tons of examples of jw's here for instance, who confessed their sins and who expected help from judicial committes and all they got was the shaft because of rules and condidtions given to elders by the society. Let's not even talk about the efforts of shady elders to get rid of ppl they don't like or already prejudiced agianst. Ppl who go against the flow or who have lots of problems don't have a chance. That's the way they want it too.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  "life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."
• 

  dungbeetle

  <"The shunning policy of the WTS has some sort of scriptural basis">

  The shunning policy of the WTS has NO scriptural basis.

  There is a looooong leap between 'putting them out from among you' and the 'shunning' as practiced by this religious organization called Jehovah's Witnesses nearly 2000 years later.

  There is a looooooooong leap between 'not greeting each other with the Christian kiss and the Christian greeting'and the 'shunning' as practiced by this by this religious organization called Jehovah's Witnesses nearly 2000 years later.

  Interestingly enough, this group didn't have 'shunning' as an organizational practice for the first few decades of its existance. The policy came into practive after the Watchtower lost its legal case to Olin Moyle in the mid- 1900's.

  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...
• 

  ashitaka

  the score? Knowledge of the score is dragged out of you everytime someone else's conscience manipulates you into losing your own uniqueness. It adds itself up when you alter every aspect of your life. You don't know the score until someone slaps you in the face.

  And then you run like hell so as not to be labeled immorral. Then, down the line you get so fed up with running you tell everyone to go f-themselves and then everyone shuns you like they always wanted to-

  and all because you thought about something carefully and said, "NO!"

  other people know your score-they gossip about it in field service, and lay it out before you when you offend someone for the slightest trifle. you believe in christian love until you realize love is a hollow word, and that the "strongest" conscience rules the roost.

  the only people who know the score are the ones who have been burned, or are the ones lighting the fire.

  ashitaka

  p.s the score did us all in.

  "I pray that I may never see the desert again-hear me God."-Robert Bolt
• 

  sweetone2377

  I was the child who was forced into it. All my choices were made, not soley by my mother but by the elders in the congregation. I was enrolled in the TMS by the elder in charge of it, not by my mother or myself but my mother was thrilled. I was pressured by the elders and my mom to be babtized. Not only that but to be babtized at a certain convention so one of our elders could babtize me himself. The list goes on and on. If I had known the score I would definatley not have let myself be bullied into it. But as a 10 YO child, how do not be bullied? I feel sorry more for the children in this "organization" than I do for the adults. Because at least the adults can say ,"no, I don't want it" at some point. The children are forced to suffer the conscequences of the choices adults make for them. Then when they are older and decide to actually exercise their mentality, they are thrown to the gutter as being the terrible offspring of Satan, with even close family members and those who we thought were friends, looking at us in disgust when no one is watching them.

  I think that if we all knew the score from the beginning, there would have been no beginning.

  And my experiences with the thought that "since you don't live with your family you can have no contact with them" depends on who you are in the congregation. One elder in my former cong had several members of his family DF. But they all still got together and carried on life as a family and were told that they were fine as long as there were no spiritual discussion. These same family members were all reinstated, one in paticular was also commiting adulery, drunkeness, etc at the time of reinstatment, and they all still gather on Thankgiving for a big turkey dinner (now mind you, even though it is a traditional holiday meal on the holiday, it is just a "family dinner") and they still to this day have "scavenger hunts" on christmas for the children to find the brightly colored gifts wrapped in christmas paper with their names on them.

  I think the score depends on who is the score keeper at the time.
• 

  Englishman

  I think that what really, really galls me is the way that the WTBTS have their own language, a language that doesn't mean the same thing to normal people.

  Take, for example, the societies edict to elders that they should "encourage" the weaker ones. You could well replace "encourage" with "harass" to get a true picture of what was meant.

  JW elders are looking for unswerving obedience, I remember how they used to deride brothers who had "Colourful personalities", there was no room in JHVHS org for individualism!

  No wonder they wanted me out!

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  somebody

  But is this a fair argument? Think about it, if you had "Known the score" before you had joined, would you then have actually joined the witnesses?

  No! It s not a fair argument at all. And the fact that the JWs go door-to-door and pretend that this a happy cult to be in pisses me off to no end I tell you. They rake in new followers and never tell them what the score is! They never tell innocent, unsuspecting people what the damn score is till it's too late. the fear of dying at armageddon is too ingrained into peoples brains before they ever are warned of the evil practices are. They are NEVER warned that if they do not go along with, and participate in, the evil practices, they will be treated as dead, even by, in most cases, their own family!

  I was one who was forced by my parents to be involved in it all, but got out as soon as I could when I became of legal age to. My heart goes out to all those who were raised in it from infancy and can never see what they are doing. Even those adults who got trapped by the door to door method were never warned!