Is the Watchtower beginning to lose its grip on its members?

by Gill 48 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  compound complex

  Dear Gill,
  
  Greetings! Made it back - finally. I'm still trying to take it all in. My take on the local level is different from that here on board JWD. Of course, here we have permission to speak freely. Those JWs with whom I have contact locally - definitely not at the KH! - "seem" happy and speak of the wonderful comaraderie. It so happens that, on a social level, dubdom here is doing very well. That's what I miss, especially the gatherings of family linked by marriage [mine]. With the exception of a few JWs who are simply wonderful people [and do not know my reality], I receive no invitations. So - to the point - I don't know how these people are at heart vis-a-vis their perception of the WT. Some have hinted at, some have been quite direct at voicing unhappiness with local elders and their attitudes and procedures; however, I know of no dissention over doctrine and the like. I'm sure most dubs here are totally ignorant of the Force's Dark Side. Is my own ignorance over their real feelings due to being pretty much out of the loop?

  CoCo
• 

  Gill

  CoCo - It may well be that the JWs in your locale are still ignorant to the 'dying of mother'. But, just as a body's cells die over so many hours, even after the brain has ceased functioning and the heart has ceased beating, it will probably be that way with the Watchtower.

  It will be a long and drawn out death.

  Look at it another way. If the literature was the life blood of the bORg, well the hard back books have stopped. One issue of the Awake mag has stopped. Subscriptions have stopped.

  Slowly, the WTBTS WILL die.....just not suddenly.

  Those very basic R and F JWs will be the last to know. The bOrg will die out only when the last die hards have gone.
• 

  Crumpet

  I'm sorry to throw a negative spanner in, but I think this is wishful thinking. There have always been more fundamentalist JWs than others. Take my family for instance - if everyone started talking to their DFed relatives openly and brazenly in their congregation they still would not talk to me - they would still cross the street if I passed them. I'm jealous of those who enjoy contact however limited with their folks, but I know that there are numerous "fundies" who unless the Society specifically relents and revokes and doesnt say it is a conscience matter to talk to Dfed ones will not do it no matter what.

  I think fundies like my family regard themselves as the ISraelites who didnt help make the golden calf and have a big ole party the second Moses back was turned. Everyone else died while they looked on sadly (Oh apart from Aaron because, well, God in his Infinitely Obscure Wisdom saw fit to punish him rather than kill him with the rest, even though he pretty much carved that calf himself and knew better). So my parents will expect that their ultimate faithfulness will be rewarded and that the ones who disobey will be so dead at Armageddon.

  I do agree that perhaps in the next two or three generations, with the passing of my parents wasted lives and those hardliner devotees like them, that perhaps resolve over all will weaken, but I rather fancy global warming will have deluged Britain first.
• 

  Gill

  Crumpet! I know it will be a long time, but it will happen that the WTBTS will be nothing but a distant memory.....it's just that it will take a long, long, looooong time!!!

  I'm sorry about your family being so extreme. However, take heart in that a lot of us on this very forum were once total nut jobs when it came to the WTBTS!!!

  Hubby has a relative who heads a Bethel. The last time he met him he was voicing doubts about the WTBTS! You never can tell what will happen with the most fundy, fundy!!

  The Internet is a very very powerful weapon against the WTBTS. It may yet destroy the beast on its own.

  But either way, the WTBTS has a sell by date that other religions don't. It chose a date, 1914........its shelf life is now running out.....and it can't wriggle out of that one no matter what it does.
• 

  Gordy

  I have thought this for a while. But thought maybe its just a local thing with congregations round here. But after reading the above posts and others on this forum it does seem something is happening.

  My daughter (DA'd) a couple years ago when we were discussing what was happened in our old congregation said it seemed that since we left it has fallen apart. Not that we had anything to do with it. But in the time I've left they have lots of troubles.

  Congregations that 10 years ago were strong are now struggling. Some JW's have left, others moved congregation because of problems.

  Elders who you would never think would leave have left. I know of brothers who are carrying on but their "joy" has gone. Even had one turn up at my church three weeks ago. Unfortunately he went before I could get to see him.

  Young ones will no longer stand the control. They are more inquiring than the young of years ago. In schools they are told to question, to discuss, to argue and not just accept things at face value. And of course they all know how to use the internet. They are applying this to what they are taught as JW's . Last year 12 got baptised at the one Circuit Assembly the oldest was 16, average age 14, where will these ones be by the time they reach 20.

  You can see that the WT is worried by the articles in the magazines, the District Conventions last year "Deliverance is at Hand" all about staying close to Jehovahs organisation and obeying it. The 2007 year text "The Great Day of Jehovah is near" the talk by the CO on Matt 24:14 being fulfilled. Whether or not approved by Brooklyn you can be sure they knew about it.

  All designed to keep this still in and in their place. There will always be the hardcore JW, the timid ones to frightened to leave, the ones who stay because they would lose family if they left.

  The Watchtower used to try and put over,to their members, that the world was frightened of them, that churches were scared of them. But now members are realising that the rest of the world couldn't give a damn about them. After 100+ years of preaching and the millions of pieces of literature hardly anyone still knows what they believe. They don't have blood, don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays is what people basically know about JW's. . That is the extent of 100+ years of preaching!

  The WT has a problem they cannot dropped major doctrines, like blood, or the anointed and the great crowd, or their view of Christ. If they did then they would lose even more members.

  Time will tell.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  It chose a date, 1914........its shelf life is now running out.....and it can't wriggle out of that one no matter what it does.

  Yes, they can wriggle out of that. There were votes in the GB before to detach some of the events in
  JW predictions from 1914 (Crisis of Conscience). They considered moving the generation that saw
  celestial phenomenons to the 1950's for those that saw men reaching out to space. They can do it
  again- put change up to a vote. If they think that they don't have God's backing on current doctrine
  (yes, I said it like they actually believe it- some of them must), then they will change current doctrine.

  We are left to imagine how they will change. Here are the facts- recruitment is down. WT is losing it's
  grip on current members (as this thread discusses). They need to fix these. My thought is that they
  will focus on retaining and controlling current members better. This needs more attention than bringing
  new ones in. As long as you stop the leak, the rate of decline will be small. I expect more personal
  freedoms to be "personal decisions." They will say the same old stuff, but then say to stop judging
  others who choose college or overtime at work, choosing sports cars instead of sedans. They already
  go light on kids who don't pioneer after high school, choose to marry, choose to raise kids. More of that.

  After improving retainment, I expect some wild new prophecy about the next imminent date for
  Armageddon. Some think they are doing that now, trying to shore up retainment with buzz about the
  end of this system of things. It could be true, but without serious dedication to that belief, it will go on
  to unlistening JW ears. This worked in 1975, the organization grew, only some of the new recruits left
  after the end did not come- it could happen again.
• 

  Doubting Bro

  It seems to me their reaction has been the exact opposite. My perception is that they are bringing the hammer down. About a year & a half ago, they reversed their view on college from one of tolerance to the old view that it was evil. And, in the elders school, they really drove it home. We recently got a BOE letter that said elders should set the example in this regard which reading between the lines seemed to indicate to me that you could get deleted if you or your kids decide to go to college. Same thing with shunning relatives. The 1-15 article was the second in less than a year dealing with that subject.

  OTWOs plan is the most rational but I don't think we're dealing with rational beings. The GBs reaction is to tighten the grip even more. Yes, they've been forced to expand the blood policy and I do believe that will drop. But, only due to legal pressure, not due to any concern on the GBs part to get right scriputally.

  They're clearly losing grip even on the little things. That sound bite from the SAD took about 2 to 3 days to make it through the JW grapevine despite the pointed direction in the KM to not pass that sort of stuff along. The younger generation is leaving in droves and Bethel doesn't 1) understand just how dramatic the departure is and 2) doesn't know how to address it.

  I just heard about a brother in my old congregation who was a long time PO and now doesn't go to meetings. The story is that he's burnt out (which I'm sure is true) but you don't go from zealous leader to inactive in one swoop and still believe. He may even be on this forum. His story is likely to be repeated over and over again as the WTS dies a slow death.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  OTWOs plan is the most rational but I don't think we're dealing with rational beings.
  The GBs reaction is to tighten the grip even more.

  I agree. I theorize. They are tightening the grip now. I theorize what they will
  do when that doesn't work. This would take place after a few more old GB
  members pass away.

  I also say they are possibly skipping their retention needs and going right to
  keeping current JW's busy with a new recruitment campaign of "The end is
  near, we really mean it this time." After this Armageddon fails to arrive, they
  will have to really work hard to retain the members. Perhaps, then they will
  lighten up on "personal decisions."

  I love analyzing what might happen, but you are correct.
  I don't think we're dealing with rational beings.
• 

  Gill

  The legal department of the Watchtower is not allowing any hard and fast statements to issue from the GB anymore.

  They look ahead at anything that might come back at them in a lawsuit form in a few years time and so we get the bizarre double speak that is in every Watchtower and Awake, and other publication. Every sentence seems to be ambiguous, as if a defence attorney was closing up his case to a jury.

  As R and F JWs take advantage of these ambiguous statements, for example the article on 'Must We always Tell the Truth?' where they claim it depends on whether the person asking deserves being told the truth, then JWs will begin to slip away from the strict rules of the WTBTS

  Even blood now is a case of , ' you can have all the bits, just not at once!'

  There is on the Legal God, in charge of the WTBTS and he speaks with forked tongue!

  JWs can take the information as they want. If the WTBTS gives itself 'wriggle room' in its orders, then the R and F will also be able to take advantage of the 'wriggle room'. They will have to depend on word of mouth to control their slaves as they dare not write down any instructions any more in case it comes back to bite them.
• 

  diamondblue1974

  JWs can take the information as they want. If the WTBTS gives itself 'wriggle room' in its orders, then the R and F will also be able to take advantage of the 'wriggle room'. They will have to depend on word of mouth to control their slaves as they dare not write down any instructions any more in case it comes back to bite them.

  Exactly, they have become more reluctant to reduce to writing any real policy which involves controversy and potential legal issues; also too, they must realise historically what damage their own written words have done, dare I mention 'Quotes'! No they prefer to rely mainly upon word of mouth to control their members thus avoiding being held to ransom or embarassed by their own publications. The WTS are masters at hiding behind unwritten rules, copyright laws when rules and doctrines are reduced to writing and their own members guilt.

  Is the Watchtower beginning to lose its grip on its members?

  A friend of mine last night sent a text to say that her JW parents were no longer shunning her which I know is excellent news. Her mother (who was the worst in terms of shunning) has invited her to stay and spend quality time with her. They have talked about so called spiritual things and her mum has agreed to disagree, it certainly appears that the grip the WTS has on her is lessening and that blood is thicker than water for some JWs.

  I also take Crumpets point too in that there will always be fundamentalists and people who ignore their own parental instincts, perhaps because they believe 'the heart is treacherous' and that it is 'Jehovahs will' that people ignore their feelings, conscience and sense of morality. After a number of years of ignoring these, it becomes easier and more difficult to distinguish between what is right and clearly wrong. When they are challenged on such issues their only defence is to dig their heels in and delude themselves that they are 'remaining faithful' when in reality they are metaphorically holding their hands up to their ears screaming, 'I am not listening, I am not listening'!

  It begs the question as to how loud this voice has to be before they will sit up and listen; for some the noise gets too much and they have no option but to hear and put things right but for others, the noise can be thunderous and yet they are deaf to anything their hearts and minds say.

  The WTBTS has a lot to answer for in this regard.

  G