by JH 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Intriguing!
Then Christians in Paul's day thru John's should have left the Christian congregations that Christ was reproving & discipling?
Or I should wait until a Perfect Brotherhood arises?
hahahahohohohoheehee!
Those were rhetorical questions, my friend!
Now if they start supporting governments, teaching Trinity,Hellfire, Immortal Soul, etc.- then YES indeedee!
Mad
The problem is Mad that while those truths are wonderful, the fact is the the Witnesses did not come up with any of them.
Intriguing!
Then Christians in Paul's day thru John's should have left the Christian congregations that Christ was reproving & discipling?
Or I should wait until a Perfect Brotherhood arises?
hahahahohohohoheehee!
Those were rhetorical questions, my friend!
Now if they start supporting governments, teaching Trinity,Hellfire, Immortal Soul, etc.- then YES indeedee!
Mad, your comments are perfectly typical of those JWs who are either mentally captivated for life, or are in the beginning stages of waking up. I'll ask you to make a careful and honest comparison of 1) the admonition given to the various congregations in the book of Revelation, and 2) the type of control the WTS takes with JWs.
If you accept John's being divinely inspired to provide the comments he did to those congregations, you will see that there was no human institution meting out punishment to them, threatening them.
Your comment about 'waiting for a perfect brotherhood' is also a common thought. The organization not only teaches they are the only providers of "Truth" at this time--but they convince you that there must be one human organization through which God is communicating to humans. This is wrong. I'd direct you to Tom Cabeen's "Does God Work Through an Organization" for some insight on this.
It's funny how the organization has somehow convinced you (as they did me) that "Christianity" has something to do with these concepts you present. We come away with the idea that the test of "Christianity" has something to do with the support of governments, and the "correct" understanding of doctrines like the Trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul. You simply cannot read the Greek scriptures and come away with these things as at all being what Christianity is about.
From Mad:
I have run into many that chuckle at the nonsense I occaisionally find when prophecies are discussed, and they confide that they are looking at it as I do; silly imaginations.
What happens when those "silly imaginations" are made known to the body of elders? Just asking...
Confession wrote:"And now, see for yourself what the Watchtower Society says...
“…survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization.” [Watchtower, May 15, 2006]
This is not some obscure passage from the days of Russell. This was in the Watchtower less than a year ago. How is it you feel that the Governing Body, who have perverted the Christian message as demonstrated above, can 'help you and others in the preaching work'? What preaching work? The one that preaches Christ as Savior? Or the one that preaches Christ through the Watchtower Society as Savior? The one that denies what 1 Timothy 2:5 says about there being "one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus"?
But if their sin includes polluting the Good News about Jesus Christ by inserting themselves as an artificial go-between, it is incumbent upon their followers to reject them. Jesus himself (at Matthew 15:9) spoke of those who teach "commands of men as doctrine," saying that their worship would be in vain. What does the Society itself say about such a thing?
“If, after making an honest investigation, you are less than pleased with what you see, do more than just complain. A journalist, while commenting on Karl Barth's statement that a church IS its members, logically concluded: 'Church members ... are responsible for what the church says and does.' So ask yourself: Am I willing to share responsibility for everything my church says and does?" [Awake! Sept. 8th, 1987]
We've come through the same path as you, Mad. Welcome to its first footsteps. Mad- Thank you for caring enough to share that, C! I seriously think you are getting carried away: while the GB seems to glorify itself sometimes- it USUALLY puts it where it BELONGS- on God & Christ, of course. Since there are many of us- and different ones write articles- opinions & viewpoints of the writer seep in- "the Good, the Bad & the Ugly!" To state that they put themselves in Christ's position simply isn't true; I'll try to make it simple: ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Jehovah sent Christ, Christ trained and taught others to carry on this work- which wouldn't last for long before becoming corrupted. Daniel & Christ both showed that in the End times/Last Days the Spirit would organize believers to- one final time- make known the only True God, and that they would preach the good news of the Kingdom thruout the earth. "Where 2 or 3 are gathered in my Name"... Survival thru the Day of Fury means we must Love & Obey our Lord, Christ Jesus ( and, of COURSE, his God & Father)- and that DOES involve " their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization". *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************** (At least that's the way they- AND I feel!) With all its faults & shortcomings, it is a brotherhood I'm usually proud of. The GB just wants us all to stay unified- and in so doing THEY get carried away, saying stupid things, occaisionally, that appears to link salvation to THEM. But one thing I am CERTAIN of- even granting that they glorify themselves sometimes- is that they REALLY DO love Jehovah & His Son- and they do their very best to do things in a way that will be according to their word! Thus the question: Who do YOU think is Obeying the King by preaching the Good News of the Kingdom thruout the Earth in these last days? Who are the only ones that helped people see the REAL God- not the Trinity nonsense? The REAL Jesus- not the Catholic skinny-sad-Hippie Image that prevailed for so long! That reveal the DISGUSTING church doctrines such as 'Hellfire', "God & Country" (in all countries saying the same thing), the 'Immortal Soul', the phony 'Holidays', the Ludicrous Catholic Saints, Popeitus, worthless rituals- and SO MUCH MORE? Now, if you feel God's 'Organization', Brotherhood, Church, Association or Society- whatever you prefer to call it- is one other than ours- for HEAVEN'S SAKE JOIN with them! Was I coherint? And I tried to keep it simple.... Mad
Rafe-The problem is Mad that while those truths are wonderful, the fact is the the Witnesses did not come up with any of them.
Mad-Lost me- what "them" do you refer to?
Confession-"Mad, your comments are perfectly typical of those JWs who are either mentally captivated for life, or are in the beginning stages of waking up. I'll ask you to make a careful and honest comparison of 1) the admonition given to the various congregations in the book of Revelation, and 2) the type of control the WTS takes with JWs. If you accept John's being divinely inspired to provide the comments he did to those congregations, you will see that there was no human institution meting out punishment to them, threatening them.Your comment about 'waiting for a perfect brotherhood' is also a common thought. The organization not only teaches they are the only providers of "Truth" at this time--but they convince you that there must be one human organization through which God is communicating to humans. This is wrong. I'd direct you to Tom Cabeen's "Does God Work Through an Organization" for some insight on this.It's funny how the organization has somehow convinced you (as they did me) that "Christianity" has something to do with these concepts you present. We come away with the idea that the test of "Christianity" has something to do with the support of governments, and the "correct" understanding of doctrines like the Trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul. You simply cannot read the Greek scriptures and come away with these things as at all being what Christianity is about."
Mad- WOW! They have convinced me of only of the True God, His Som & His Word- and I always look for flaws there, too!
Do I have to KEEP quoting Jesus words! HE is the one who said WHERE 2 OR 3 ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME- THERE I WILL BE ALSO. HE is the one that told them to work together to encourage , help, and preach. HE is the one that said it would be done worldwide!
So, taking your stand- JWs are not True Christians, either- HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
Catholics? Baptists?Muslims?Hari Krisna? Hindus? Mormons? I've examined SO many, and the only term that fits has the initials "BS".
That must mean that individuals- all understanding the same thing are doing this! Or Christ, too, was a phony.
Noone but JWs come to the door proclaiming the Kingdom of God. Christ was NOT a phony....
Mad
Poppers-"From Mad:
I have run into many that chuckle at the nonsense I occaisionally find when prophecies are discussed, and they confide that they are looking at it as I do; silly imaginations.
What happens when those "silly imaginations" are made known to the body of elders? Just asking... Once, a person DARED me to, I did, and the elder said nothing- opened the Bible to the passge that proved the point that was contrary to the GB view- and winked! I don't make a practice of that because I don't rely on Elders to do my thinking, and it won't really accomplish anything! Mad
Mad: I don't make a practice of that because I don't rely on Elders to do my thinking, and it won't really accomplish anything! Mad
That is a good start to freeing yourself from the watchtower "mind control" GOOD for YOU!
So nice to have you in on the discission Mad,
I am curious as to why you would take the Watch Tower Society's word as truth in regards to these being "the End Times" since you are skeptical of the leadership? My family was recruited in the mid 1960's and we were convinced those were "the End Times", we had slightly older JW friends that had been told in the 1940's that those were "the End Times" and we even had a friend who was very old at the time who had been told that the 1914 era were "the End Times". Most of these folks and their converts are now dead.
To me the term "End Times" starts to loose any meaning when generation after generation grows old and dies years before the End ever comes. The Watch Tower Doctrine of "the End times" and its preaching work is time-proven to be meaningless and false. Traditional Christianity (Christendom to JWs) doesn't make the actual start of the "End times" a doctrinal issue but rather they emphasize leading a Christian life regardless of how near or far the End may be.
JWs are primarily convinced that they have the "Truth" because they think they know how close to the "End" we are and are fulfilling their duty by informing everyone about this yet, they have been proven wrong over and over again. They know NO more than the Churches of Christendom about Bible prophecy, NOT because ex-JWs say so, but because it is time-proven over and over again with each dead generation. There is nothing special about the JW Organization. There is none now nor has there ever been any evidence that they have any special insight or extra inspiration from God, so why is it vitale for anyone to associate themselves with the Organization with such a poor track record?
