They make mistakes just like 1st century christians did.

by GBSJG 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LovesDubs

  If the JWs make LESS mistakes than other religions, and the JWs are forbidden to read or study other religions, where is the statistical basis for claiming that THEY make "less" mistakes than the rest of the religions? And what poll was taken to determine that the members of other nonJW religions make more or WORSE mistakes than JWs do person for person? So the JWs think of themselves as the horseshoe closest to the stake? They believe they are at the top of Consumer Report's list of "Religions That Make The Most and the Least Mistakes"?

  They also claim that they are the fastest growing religion in the world, and the JWs buy that theory. They say that Jehovah is the Editor in Chief of the Watchtower and yet Jehovahs own information must be CHANGED because he "made a mistake" or "misinterpreted" something from the Bible at the turn of the century...a book Jehovah wrote to begin with?? Jehovah changes his mind now does he? He certainly did about celebrating Christmas and birthdays. When Jesus came and CHOSE the Witnesses as a people for his name in 1918, they were celebrating Christmas and birthdays and smoking. Why would Jehovah choose such druggie PAGANS for his name??

  Were the early JWs too stupid to "understand" truth so Jehovah gave them bad information and waited for the "smart" JWs to come along so he could give "clearer understanding" to them?

  Its the most wacked thinking Ive ever encountered. WACKED.
• 

  UnConfused

  They play both sides of the fence:
  
  "We're God's Channel - no one can understand the bible apart from us." "These assemblies are prepared by Jehovah." "The WT is edited by Jehovah"
  
  
  Then when the bugger it up they fall back to the "we're not perfect"
• 

  Terry

  Think of it this way.

  An analogy....

  Imagine you are visiting a foreign country and your child gets ahold of a bottle with a poison label and ingests some of it. You can't read the warning or the antidote instructions because you are in a foreign country.

  You call a doctor and explain (as best as the language barrier will allow) what happened. The Doctor tells you he will have a prescription available at the nearest drugstore.

  Upon arrival you find the Pharmacist is looking at the prescription and scratching his head. He finally shrugs, asks you some questions about your child and the poison, and makes some medicine for your child.

  STOP!

  This analogy corresponds to the following scenario.

  We have a language barrier between humans and the supernatural spirit realm, obviously. We are as if in a foreign land as far as our proximity to God or understanding his language. Our most precious loved one is dying (as are all humans on Earth) and we seek some way to prevent the worst from happening.

  Obviously there is a time limit on saving our child. But, other barriers are in place too. Contacting God and getting his instructions means choosing the right Holy Book and trusting that the prescription is accurate. Further, whoever interprets the prescription on our behalf (our pastor, elder, etc.) has to figure out what the Doctor is really saying accurately as well. Suffice it to say we ARE given something that passes for medicine either way!

  STOP!

  It takes a lot of trust as well as a lot of luck in either scenario to get to the point we are secure in administering the medicine on hand to our own child (or ourselves)!

  The FIRST CENTURY Christians had no advantage whatsoever over us today 2000 years later. None! They argued amongst themselves, they differed, they fought and they sought to marginalize those who disagreed. Without UNITY it was ALL OPINION.

  It is the same today. People still get sick and die. The medicine doesn't work in this life anyway.

  The First Century Christians weren't just one people with one idea. They were many kinds of people from rabid ultra-conservative orthodox Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah to extremely liberal converts who fought for no circumcisions or food prohibitions.

  The fact that they were ALL HUMAN is irrelevent. There is no THERE there. It is a MYTH of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society that there has ever been on this planet some unity of pure worship which can be historically demonstrated.

  So, all of us have some varying prescriptions being filled by a wide variance of Pharmacists. Do we take the medicine or do we not? It seems not to matter since everybody dies anyway.

  Remember, all the first century believers were utterly convinced of Jesus imminent arrival ANY MOMENT. They were dead wrong (and now dead.)

  The argument is moot.

  Nobody knows a damned thing that isn't conjecture.
• 

  Rooster

  Jehovah’s witnesses are just like the first century Jews. They could not let go of all the rules that they lived by for centuries. To be Christian was and still is a very simple process. Believe in Jesus Christ and extend love to all others.
• 

  Paralipomenon

  Ask them what happened to the first century Christians.
  
  The answer is, they eventually got swallowed up in apostasy and faded away.
  
  This was an organization that had first hand knowledge of Jesus and the apostles were still performing powerful works in his name and yet due to human governing they were corrupted.
  
  Ask them if they think the first century Christians realized they were being led astray, then pull the parallel to the Organization today.
  
  Given the mistakes in interpretation and the changing of teachings, what would be a more accurate statement:
  
  God has selected the Witnesses as his own people but does not assist in the creation of spiritual food.
  
  or
  
  The Witnesses are constantly refining their teachings to try to be in line with what they think God would expect out of an organization.
  
  Any person that doesn't follow the Governing Body's own imperfect interpretation of the scriptures has and will continue to be expelled from the congregation for "the safety of the flock". Even though that very teaching may change in the future to be in line with the expelled person's concerns.
  
  If this person is stumbled, who is blood guilty? The Elders or the Governing Body? Or does Jehovah make exceptions for those that prune his flock for the sake of the greater good?
  
  If they desire to return after the change of teaching takes place, they are not welcomed back and offered an apology. No, rather they must apologize themselves and beg for forgiveness for questioning the incorrect teaching. They are to be shunned until forgiveness is granted.
  
  Does this sound like teachings that Jehovah would be proud of? Or does it sound more like the Pharasies who presumed to know God's will?
• 

  yaddayadda

  What better way to convince them than by using the Bible!:
  
  Point them to Zephaniah 3:8 & 9 and get them to read it carefully, then ask them WHEN does Jehovah give the 'pure language' (of doctrinal truth) to his people? Watch their jaws drop when they see for themselves that it is DURING the great tribulation, not before! This proves that Jehovah has not given to any one group of Christians any 'pure' teachings and therefore logically no single religion can claim to be the only 'true' religion.
  
  Then ask them why the Society from 1995 has taught that the separation of the sheep and the goats is a FUTURE event, yet, in a clear contradiction to that, it still teaches that the separation of the wheat from the weeds has been ongoing from 1914-19?? To prove the error of the Watchtower Society in this regard, ask them when the 'harvest' is by getting them to read Matthew 13: 39 for themselves. There, Jesus clearly says that the harvest is 'a conclusion of a system of things'. The 'conclusion' of this system of things is obviously still FUTURE. This logically means that Jesus has YET to gather together the various wheat-like Christians that are still scattered, intermingled, amongst all the weeds.
  
  These two passages of scripture prove that any claim of an ingathering of Christians into one organisation exclusively used by God to teach a 'pure' body of doctrinal 'truth' can only be a FUTURE event. Until it happens, true and false Christians remain scattered together as wheat and weeds in EVERY Christian denomination until the harvest.
• 

  avidbiblereader

  But usually they say that compared to other religions the WTS makes less mistakes so you should go there.

  A sin is a sin, the same as a calorie is a calorie. The big difference is that the first century christians didn't put God's name upon themselves and we KNOW that God spoke to the first century christians, but the Bible says speaking to people in an inspired way has ceased and they shouldn't add to it. No matter how you slice it, they have added and the flock takes their written words as inspired. The first century christians also would allow themselves to be corrected without kicking the other out. Gal Ch 2.

  abr
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Dear Shadow,

  GREAT FIND!!! I have read this a long time ago but don't know if I ever made a copy of it. Thank you! I may later post this under its own topic, as many would benefit by this!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
• 

  Forscher

  My reply might something along the lines of...

  A few mistakes are one thing, but the wholesale rate at which the Governing Body get it wrong is something else entirely. Even with the fundamentals, such as their zealous embrace of legalism, something Jesus himself condemns right at the outset in his sermon on the mount, is way beyond the pale. it is much more than making a few mistakes. It is wholesale apostasy from Jesus' teachings.

  Forscher
• 

  Abandoned

  I know that such reasoning doesn't make sense to me but what is a good response to this?

  The best response to this would be that little move from the cartoons where your head raises up and spins all the way around. Otherwise, I don't have any idea how to handle this. I hope I learn effective ways to talk to jw, but I still have such an aversion for talking too much about their backwards beliefs...