AK-Jeff... The religions of today will be the myths of tomorrow...
Christianity did NOT borrow from pagan "Dying-Rising" God motifs
by yaddayadda 93 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Perry
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat2.html
Part B of the paper above covers information related to the apostles. Seems pretty clear to me.
If I were God I would just publish one volume - written in the hand of God instead of man -
The real problem with Eve was that she didn't believe/trust God. Unbelief preceeds sin. Thousands of years later, the heathen have the same problem. In all of future eternity, there will never be a time when belief/trust is not essential to a relationship with God just as it is with any on-going relationship. Why not start training man now to believe? Millions live by faith rather than by sight and can testify that it works just fine. I can testify that this way is far less stressful. After the re-birth God's laws are written on hearts. God's way is: belief preceeds success and relationship.
saying precisely what he wants me to do.
There is really nothing for you to do, other than to allow Jesus to take control. Forget about trying to be good or obedient before the re-birth. It is a waste of time. After you get born again, good is what naturally happens when the flesh suppressed.
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AK - Jeff
Pretty good one AatG.
Perry said:
There is really nothing for you to do, other than to allow Jesus to take control. Forget about trying to be good or obedient before the re-birth. It is a waste of time. After you get born again, good is what naturally happens when the flesh suppressed.
So, you state that I have to do nothing? Except of course to 'allow Jesus to take control'. What if I can find no proof that Jesus was anything more than a man? What if I discover he lived, but not as Son of Man, but as revolutionary against Rome? What if he did not die on a cross at all? Or, what if he did, but only as another 'sinner' - this time the sin being against the Roman state?
And, then of course I must be 'born again'. This according to the words that Jesus is claimed to have spoken to Nicodemus - but again such words were not recorded until decades after the fact, by a man whom many claim never actually knew the man Jesus.
As far as stress goes - I don't feel much of that now.
I just want God to tell me directly what he wants. After all - I expect my children to act in a certain manner. All I really ask of them is that they sort thru writings that span most of humankind's existence, and then to cull from those words, the ones that most likely represented my 'fatherly love' for my sons. Pretty simple. If they chose words for my mouth that miss my intent - well then my anger will flare. I shall burn them forever. I will destroy them for eternity. They should have gotten it - I showed them the library after all.
Jeff
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compound complex
Greetings, Jeff:
They should have gotten it - I showed them the library after all.
Jeff
I now spend hours in the Forbidden Library, wondering where in the stacks is the gem of a conclusive answer to your and my questions.
It used to be so easy before I took to the sea of literary and scholastic waters familiar to "worldlings" but uncharted for me.
I can live with the seasickness ...
CoCo
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AK - Jeff
Me too, CoCo. Me too.
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Awakened at Gilead
>Forget about trying to be good or obedient before the re-birth. It is a waste of time. After you get born again, good is what naturally happens when the flesh suppressed.<
How is this any different from JW speak?
>Forget about trying to be good or obedient before the re-birth your baptism. It is a waste of time. After you get born again baptized, good is what naturally happens when the flesh suppressed.<
Sorry Perry, thanks for sharing wuch wonderful Biblical thoughts. I can't see why you don't trust in our savior Buddha. He was before your Christ, and he was sent by God to teach us the way. Unless you repent and believe in Buddha, your eternal torment is sealed.
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Perry
I just want God to tell me directly what he wants.
He wants you to be perfect, "You must be perfect". Do you want perfection? If not, I believe that would conclude your business with God for now.
If you do, then the following interchange might me useful:
Some time after John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the Savior that takes away the sin of the world he found himself in prison. In that position, he apparently had doubts and sent his diciples to inquire, " Are you the Messiah or are we to expect another?" Keep in mind this was before the indwelling was possible.
Then Jesus answering said unto them , Go your way , and tell John what things ye have seen and heard ; how that the blind see , the lame walk , the lepers are cleansed , the deaf hear , the dead are raised , to the poor the gospel is preached . - Luke 7:22
When a person gets himself born again, has the internal witness, experiences contrition, guilt, forgiveness, and walks for awhile with the Lord to experience fruit... there is no power in the universe that can separate a person from that reality.
Unlike John we are not contempories of Jesus. But he is still very much alive. The only way you are going to get that kind of "proof" today is in the indwelling where God does his work through you and in you, and thus verifies his existence and his utter approval and love for you.
This is what happened to me and my wife.
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Awakened at Gilead
Perry,
Have you ever read the book, The Demon Haunted World" by the late Carl Sagan? He explains why personal experiences, such as yours, while believable, cannot be used to compel others to believe. If God does reveal himself, why does he do so in intimately private experiences, and giving equally plausible visions of his granduer to persons of various faiths? Muslims have seen Allah or Mohammed and have the same convictions tha you do about Christ. UFOlogists have seen aliens and speak just as convincingly. Who should we believe?
Unless "God" reveals himself to the general population in ways that are verefiable and measurable, I will be (in the words of Barack) a non-believer.
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Perry
I get your point AaG.
Unless "God" reveals himself to the general population in ways that are verefiable and measurable,
For most, I don't think that would work either. He is just not what people expect.
I believe that an impostor will soon appear on the world stage doing miracles that are verifiable and measureable and deceive many.
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AK - Jeff
I must second the comments above.
I would further add this; Why? Why would he reveal himself only to selected individuals? Is this not a case of pompous self? Why does my very fine neighbor, who follows the advice of Jesus in most things, not get 'reborn', while the wretched murderer on death row finds such attention? Why is the Bible not available to the people in remote villages in China, if we are expected to imitate Christ? Why doesn't Jesus show up soon? Why is all this so invisible? Why is 'faith' important? Why should my belief that God/Jesus will fix the world, make my salvation when he does depend on that faith? Thomas doubted - Jesus did not throw him out. He removed any doubt [according to the account]. Peter doubted that Jesus had been raised. Jesus left him some proof that he had [according to the account]. Paul was chosen by Jesus though he hated his followers. Why? Judas was selected by God - but was evil - why? God saw the devil hanging from a tree with an apple in his hand for poor little Eve - why not kill the snake and let the nice naked lady get on with propagation of the species? Or if you have to kill someone - why not Eve? SHe did it! Why kill all her descendants? Why not sterilize the entire matter and start the whole process anew?
Why do I have to believe to gain life? As a man - should I withhold that which is good from those who don't know me - especially when they don't know me because I hide my identity, or make that identity unsure by a boundless supply of writings that all say to me "I am GOD! Follow Me!'
Or How. How do you know it was Jesus who revealed himself? Some claim that Jesus reveals himself when they are uttering tongues. Examination of these words reveal little to confirm that as reality in most cases. Why does no one get miraculous resurrections to prove they are Jesus' followers today? That would land big with me - to see a dead man get up and walk. Jesus thought it a pretty good idea to show who he was - why not now? Some of the apostles continued the tradition - to show whom Jesus was blessing I assume. Why not now?
Or When. When will he come? Why so long? When will he reveal himself? Will it be in blood trickling from the wounds of a statue in Central America? Or the healing arts of a black magic priest in Uganda? Or the words of wisdom from a Jw or Mormon or Catholic Nun who knocks on my door? People of all sorts claim that they have seen God - you say Perry, that you have seen Jesus.
I am happy for you. You have it now. The rest of us only wait for it. Or die waiting for it. What happens then? Hell? Because God didn't act and show himself to me? He allowed Satan to show himself to Eve. Why can't he show himself to us? The sky is large. So is God? Perfect stage. That would leave no doubt. Only those who covered their eyes could say they didn't see him - all excuses would be gone then. But short of that - why not save us all, since it is not our fault that God won't show himself to us?
Jeff