I have to aux pioneer?

by thebiggestlie 41 Replies latest jw experiences

Wasanelder Once

Boy oh boy Winnie, you'd make a great elder. I've known brothers that were about as understanding as you. To each their own.
TBLie,
You're on the right track. Just say you are not able to do it. You are not obligated to give a reason, to either this elders queen or any of us, including Winnie. Just don't do it. Not hard. If she pesters, just ask her to pray for Jehovah to open a way for you to do it. Then when you don't, you can say, I guess the answer was NO. WIlly Loman is on the right track.
W.Once
SirNose586

Sooner or later you are bound to be found out!
17yo is old enough to stand up for what you believe is right (or not).
I'd say he's standing up right now for what he believes in. Going on this forum to talk about doubts is pretty brave compared to just internalizing them.
17 is old enough to move out and get a job, or alternatively, share with friends/relatives that are not JW's.
You're not an American, so let me explain. Over here, depending on where you live, it's pretty damned hard to move out without a post-High School education and be able to pay all your bills. No one gives 17 year olds good jobs. Period. You've got to have fantastic connections to be able to do that. Where I live, you cannot survive on having a non-skilled job. The rent is simply too high--forget about mortgage! People have to work two or more jobs to simply pay the rent if they weren't able to land a good job. And seeing as how the JW plan of action is to not get any education, this presents a problem for him, and also for myself, who was denied going to real college.
17 is old enough in 'the organizations' eyes to be accountable for your actions.
What good is it going to do going to the meetings/field service and then posting on this forum how much you hate it?
Don't you get it? People who get on this forum to complain about FS and so on are in the process of leaving the organization. People who have been raised their whole lives simply can't wake up and say, "Ok, I want to leave the org." It means learning to think in a different way, and to start understanding issues from a different perspective. Going on this forum and talking about feelings of cognitive dissonance, and talking about how the WT suddenly looks like rubbish are very important to the person who is trying to get out. One needs to start breaking the mental chains, and here is a great way to do it.
People respect you more as a person when you stand up for what you belive in, regardless of age.
Respect yourself, and stop living a lie.
Not in this religion, dear. You stand up tomorrow and tell the whole congregation how you feel, you're suddenly a spawn of Satan. He's on his way out, as am I. I really don't think you get what the plan is: get an education so he can move out without starving, and develop contacts on this board. If you tell everyone how you feel right away, you get disfellowshipped, and flat out on your ass. If you weren't able to get contacts, or able to get yourself into college, you will be screwed. At that point, the Org has you where they want you: floundering and isolated. Remember too that if he played by the rules, as I did, he doesn't have any friends who can bail him out. Then you end up crawling back.
Doing everything he's been doing is more likely to make sure that he can leave the org and survive on his own. I've read here that one-third of all disfellowshipped people come back. By your gameplan, he gives a big middle finger to everyone, then winds up sleeping in a car (if he has one). Will that pride keep him warm at night? Will that pride pay the bills?
There's no point in throwing away the resources of living at home simply to assuage one's ego.
Good Girl or Bad Girl?

bravo, SirNose, that post was better than i could have expressed it. It needed to be said.
The Biggest Lie: You have a lot of amazing support here.
Scully

"every congregation needs at least 16 aux pioneers for the month of april. You should can i count on you?"
Bull$h!t. I've never heard of any kind of quota. What business is it of HER'S anyway? What a biotch.
Your "service" is between you and Jehovah, and is none of anyone else's business. Please repeat the following phrase 50 times in front of a mirror, until you get comfortable saying it out loud. You will need to say this to any JW who tries this kind of BS tactic on you again.
Whether I Auxiliary Pioneer™ in April or not is between me and Jehovah. Please stop assuming that it is any of your business.
Use the same manner of response with anyone who tries to push you into Doing More™ JW stuff, because it's none of their business.
winnie

Boy oh boy Winnie, you'd make a great elder. I've known brothers that were about as understanding as you. To each their own.
Firstly, I had and have no desire to be someone who judges and condemnes others, and secondly, unless you have been in a similar circumstance, you cannot begin to understand what he is going through. When your in a situation like this, you don't need understanding, you need advice and help!
I'd say he's standing up right now for what he believes in.
Speaking out on this forum is 'safe' and I wouldn't say it is standing up for what you believe in. It's anonymous. You are still hiding what you really think from other jw's, and that is a form of lying to yourself and others whichever way you look at it.
Don't you get it? People who get on this forum to complain about FS and so on are in the process of leaving the organization. People who have been raised their whole lives simply can't wake up and say, "Ok, I want to leave the org." It means learning to think in a different way, and to start understanding issues from a different perspective. Going on this forum and talking about feelings of cognitive dissonance, and talking about how the WT suddenly looks like rubbish are very important to the person who is trying to get out. One needs to start breaking the mental chains, and here is a great way to do it.
There are alot of people who, by their own admission, are on this site, complaining about meetings, jw's, etc who have no intention of leaving. As for your statement "People who have been raised their whole lives simply can't wake up and say: OK I want to leave the org", I was raised as a JW and I did exactly that. I also know others who have done the same. In our lives, it was much better to be honest about how we felt, rather than hide our true feelings. If you continue to 'liva a lie', it will eat away at you and the end result will be much worse. But if you want to procrastinate... to each their own.
There's no point in throwing away the resources of living at home simply to assuage one's ego.
That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? You can't have your cake and eat it too!
And it has nothing to do with one's ego.
If they were loving parents, (and his sound like they are) they should respect their childrens choices, even if they themselves do not agree. There are compromises to every situation, that are suitable to all, while respecting each one's beliefs. And if not, there is always a way out of a hard situation, you just have to find it, no matter how hard it may be.
bravo, SirNose, that post was better than i could have expressed it. It needed to be said.
Have you been in a similar circumstance? Because if you haven't, you have no idea what does and does not need to be said!
I am not saying that I don't sympathise with his situation. It is hard to be that young and have these type of choices to make. And no, I don't know what it is like to live in the States at that age. Here in Australia we have numerous resources to help us in these situations at that age. But I do understand what it is like to have doubts and express them at that age. I did just that, and went through the works, elders meetings, arguments, the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. But you come out of it a better person. It may seem that there is no way out while you are in the middle of it, but things do and will get better.
Zico

'Bull$h!t. I've never heard of any kind of quota.'

Nope, this is true. My Congregation is expected to have 12 auxillary pioneers in April. The Society are trying to set a new record for auxillary pioneers.
Wasanelder Once

Winnie,
I think you nailed it when you said "I don't live in the states." Bravo for your self affirming actions when a teen. That was your road, eh? Considering that all here respect what this lad is doing shows that not all agree with your hardline criteria as to who deserves respect.
As has been said, NO ONE HIRES A 17 YEAR OLD FOR MUCH OF ANYTHING BUT A FAST FOOD JOB. In this country you cannot afford the apt. that they wont let you rent if you move out at 17. Granted, if there are friends (18) you can hook up with them and then all pool your money and take the shit job in the low rent district where there are plenty of drugs and no future. If you knew that and payed attention to the fact that this kid has been home schooled, ( this means that his mother or parent is the teacher and the kid KNOWS NO ONE BUT OTHER WITNESSES.. There are no other students.) This tends to make kids into social retards, save for the interaction of field service.
No, there are not any provisions for helping young people that move out when underage. You cannot rent an apartment until you are 18 in this country. YOU CANNOT. You cannot get a loan for a car until you are 18. You cannot get insurance for a car, (required by law) until you are 18. You cannot drive a car legally without insurance. If caught without insurance its a hefty fine that he would have to add to his financial burden. An apt. might cost this kid as much as $650.00 to $800.00 a month. Of course this isn't furnished, he would have to come up with some. No parental help at all if he takes the route you expound. Then add utilities and car insurance, another $80.00 plus $150.00 a month. These are low ass figures. Add food 200.00 a month (laughable) and you have about $1030.00 a month... conservative estimate for someone earning approx $900. a month.
Hey kid, stand up for your beliefs! What the hell is wrong with you?
Then while he's working 40 hours a week shoveling french fries or clearing tables he won't have time to attend school. Oh, yes, good luck if your unfinished home schooling gets you into anything but a Community College. We have no National Health in the U.S., we have to come up with money for the doctor if we have no employer provideed health insurance. Therefore if he gets ill while he's living in his crap apt that he can't afford, he will have to pay the $45.00 - $100.00 to see the doctor and the 85.00 for the anti-biotics if he gets really sick from bronchitis or whatever. Then again, he'll lose some work, or go to work sick and prolong his illness so he can almost make enough money to survive. All this so he can have your respect? You do the math.
He's smart to bide his time and work the system till he's in a circumstance where he can succeed, better yet, prosper.
This youngster is doing what he can, looking for support in his desire to make a switch, when the time is right. He is rearranging his thinking. You would enforce your thinking on him regardless of showing understanding or insight, (very elder like, trust me I've been there... shame on me.)
In some parts of the country its better than others, but on the whole that's why so many undereducated turn to selling drugs. There's gold in that if you want to live like that.
I'm glad it worked for you. You aint from these parts and it aint like it is down under, apparently.
Glad you made the break, now give the kid one. Why not encourage the flame of light instead of pissing on it?
W.Once
kifoy

I remember a campaign like this about 10 years ago. I wrote my name on the list a couple of month before, but I did not aux. after all when the month came.

This was one of the things that in the end made me fade away and DA. This constant nagging about pioneering. Personally I hated the door-to-door thing. And this constant reminder that I was not good enough, that I did not do enough, slowly pushed me away.

I had a lot of friends that were pioneers, and they were great people and amuzing company, most of the time.
But before I was babtized I was their perfect company on long service days, because they «could count hours» on me since i was not babtized. (That helped a lot on my self-esteem... not, even though they now might say that it was a joke.)

After I got babtized they started to ask me when I would start as a pioneer. Not one time, but many times, as this was highly expected. And I felt that I as a non-pioneer was of less value. My mother was a pioneer for many many years, and my father a well respected elder, so of course I would follow that path too...

No way, that was something I could never do.
I was aux pioneer _one_ time, and I did honestly manage to finish my hours that month.
But, imho, when the "hunting" for hours is the most important thing what's the point?

So, tpl, don't aux. if you don't want to. No one can make you. They can make you feel worthless, but remember that you are a very valuable person no matter what!
I did not see that for a long time.

kifoy
anewme

No you dont have to pioneer! You dont have to do ANYTHING!!!! And you wont get dfd for doing nothing!
There are plenty of witnesses who miss meetings, never go in field service, grow beards, etc....and nothing ever happens to them. They dont DA themselves and they do nothing worthy of DFing.

Point in case, my ex brother in law. Stopped going to meetings years ago, grew a beard, works all the time, still greets witnesses in a friendly way. Everyone still greets him and slaps him on the back and hopes he regains his whatever.

Years ago I thought he was a WEIRDO, but now I think he must be a GENIUS of sorts!
He did a fade!

Stupid me! I had go out in a blaze of notorious glory which severed all ties with everyone I ever loved!

If I had to do it over again, I would certainly have done the fade. I would just refuse to do certain things. Come to think of it there are lots of witnesses who refused to do certain things. I remember sisters who said they were just too shy to join the school. So they didnt. Sometimes they came to the Theocratic School but often they didnt. Others said no way would they pioneer. It just wasnt for them. Sure enough, no one dfd them nor were they shunned for not pioneering.

I knew plenty of people who refused to offer the mags the right way at the doors. They knew their limits and no one could budge them. I though pushed myself waaaaaaaaayyyyy beyond my emotional and psychological abilities and wound up cracking up from all the pressures.

Listen, people will tell you you have to do this or that. Your parents too may tell you you have to do this or that. BUT LISTEN TO YOUR HEART! DONT DO WHAT IN YOUR HEART YOU DONT BELIEVE AND WHAT YOU DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING!

Its really that easy to stay in the org yet not be made insane by it.

Anewme
SirNose586

Speaking out on this forum is 'safe' and I wouldn't say it is standing up for what you believe in. It's anonymous. You are still hiding what you really think from other jw's, and that is a form of lying to yourself and others whichever way you look at it.
Lying to oneself and others is, unfortunately, just a part of growing up in this organization. I have to hide what I really enjoy, as does everyone else. Unless you are completely indoctrinated, you are hiding at least a little something. For example, one of my good friends in the hall has to hide his love of hip hop from everyone else. Many of the kids around my age have to hide their latent alcoholism. Lying about how he feels right now is just more of the same behavior, only the penalty for getting caught is much stiffer. Everyone has something to hide. It's how we survive without going crazy.
There are alot of people who, by their own admission, are on this site, complaining about meetings, jw's, etc who have no intention of leaving. As for your statement "People who have been raised their whole lives simply can't wake up and say: OK I want to leave the org", I was raised as a JW and I did exactly that. I also know others who have done the same. In our lives, it was much better to be honest about how we felt, rather than hide our true feelings. If you continue to 'liva a lie', it will eat away at you and the end result will be much worse. But if you want to procrastinate... to each their own.
Oh? Who has no intention of leaving? Could you show me one person?
As for your being able to leave at the drop of the hat, pat yourself on the back. You are in the extreme minority. Your inner strength has been undamaged. The rest of us have to unlearn being a mindless follower, and learn to be assertive and confident. Being confident, independent, and assertive was beaten out of me at an early age. None of these qualities were taught to me at the hall, or at home. What little I possess of those qualities I had to learn the hard way. I apologize for not having your courage, I really do! I imagine TBL's circumstance is not too different from mine.
That's a bit hypocritical, isn't it? You can't have your cake and eat it too!
And it has nothing to do with one's ego.
If they were loving parents, (and his sound like they are) they should respect their childrens choices, even if they themselves do not agree. There are compromises to every situation, that are suitable to all, while respecting each one's beliefs. And if not, there is always a way out of a hard situation, you just have to find it, no matter how hard it may be.
First off, his parents do not respect his choices. Oh yes, they certainly should respect his choices, but they clearly don't. There is no compromise. "Either you are with the Slave, or you are not."

Have you been in a similar circumstance? Because if you haven't, you have no idea what does and does not need to be said!
I am not saying that I don't sympathise with his situation. It is hard to be that young and have these type of choices to make. And no, I don't know what it is like to live in the States at that age. Here in Australia we have numerous resources to help us in these situations at that age. But I do understand what it is like to have doubts and express them at that age. I did just that, and went through the works, elders meetings, arguments, the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. But you come out of it a better person. It may seem that there is no way out while you are in the middle of it, but things do and will get better.
I wish I could live down there. In the States, the government has been successfully waging a war against the "have-nots," aka the middle class.
You speak about making one's own choices. My choice is to leave on my own terms. I do not feel the need to subject myself to their kangaroo court. You chose to endure it, and for that you are once again to be commended. Until you can truly appreciate how screwed you are if you try to get out on your own without a good education in the States, you will understand how carefully we (and by "we," I mean young people who haven't moved out yet) have to plan if we want to get out and never come crawling back. Wasanelder's comments highlight this point extensively.

I have to aux pioneer?

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