Wish that I could read the debate...
Somebody Help!!
by RichieRich 29 Replies latest jw friends
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Rayvin
93. "God will destroy all non-jws at armageddon" That would not be a right and just god. He will no destroy those who have not had the chance to hear about jehovahs god and his message.
I thought that he will only destroy the ones that have heard the news and haven't chosen to join the JWs. So theoretically ones that haven't heard of the news would get the chance to walk through armegeddon alive and get into the paradise on earth and at that time choose to follow or die. But i was also told that the ministry work has been so widespread that by this time there are very few people who haven't heard of the JWs message.
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MeneMene
The list you have is really very good. There are a few of the items that probably should be reworded to take out the "must" and replace with JWs are 'encouraged to' or something softer.
Two items that jumped out at me that the JW did not mention are:
37. You cannot accept Christmas gifts - I don't think this is an accurate statement. JWs take, take and take some more. They just do not GIVE or EXCHANGE Christmas gifts.
66. JW meeting places have no windows - this has been discussed several times lately on JWD and while some KHs do not have windows, many do have windows. It was mentioned that with the quick builds it may be easier to build them without windows but no one provided anything stating they were to have no windows.
My 2 cent contribution -
AuldSoul
93. "God will destroy all non-jws at armageddon" That would not be a right and just god. He will no destroy those who have not had the chance to hear about jehovahs god and his message.
While the JW is correct that such a God would not be right or just, the Watchtower has directly stated that everyone has already had a chance to hear. 100+ years of chances, in fact. The publication Survival Into a New Earth (©1984, interestingly) makes plain that any who are of an age capable of determingin right from wrong who are not baptized Jehovah's Witnesses will be destroyed (per teachings on "man with the secretary's inkhorn" in Ezekiel). This teaching has not been declared recently, but it has also never been recanted or revised. It is current doctrine of JWs, whether or not they know it.
I would suggest simply stating that you didn't make the list but that you find it interesting that out of such a very long and disturbing list the JW could find so little fault with it. And even then that the JW had to edit one of the items to invent one to take issue with. That way you don't have to defend the list and you demonstrate by your silence that there is no real need to make them out as any stranger than the JW demonstrated them to be.
On the point of Jesus being capable of sin and failure, their teaching is that he must have been able to sin or he was not an equal of Adam at all. Of course, the Bible never says Jesus was an equal of Adam. Far more sins than just Adam's sins needed balancing. Jesus would need to be far more than Adam to cover the debt. But, according to their doctrine he was an exact correspondent of Adam and was therefore capable of sin and failure to pay a ransom.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
bebu
You could also be abashed at the JW's attempt at watering down the faith! Why, doesn't she believe these truths at all? Is she ashamed? Tell her that you'reproud to be a JW and proud of the truth!
bebu
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Soledad
This person is trying to bait you and is playing semantics. Dont even bother to reply or refute. Yes it may be true that it is not "law" that a JW marry another JW and that the meeting attendance is not mandatory as far as being written somewhere, but just remember you are dealing with a CULT here and the culture of the Witnesses is to conform conform conform. Non-conformists are singled out.
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RichieRich
Lola's response:
9. Richie said nothing about the resurection, and i think that what he meant to say is that witnesses don't believe that after you die you go to heaven or hell, that's what he meant by "no life after death"
24.You are right they wont DF but you can be marked, if you don't go to ALL the meetings you are considered "weak" and bad association.
26.Come on! We all know that if you date a nonwitness or even someone that is not baptized you can lose all your standing in the congregation, you can be reproved and not allowed to answer at the meetings or pioneer.
34.It is very highly discuraged, in all my time as a witness I've only known one witness who actually served on a jury, also you can not vote and that is not a "conscience matter" voting WILL get you DFed.
46. LOL, what kingdom hall are you going to? Mr. and Mrs.? Hahahaha
47. I'm pretty sure the society has suggested that witnesses not play chess, come on Shauna read the Awake every once in a while!
51. Seriously, in my cong only one person had a tw door car and sisters ALWAYS talked about this poor sister b/c how dare she have such a car?!
54.Shauna again how long have you been a witness? EVERYONE knows that a sister can not offer prayer without wearing a head covering even if a man is not there! When I went to meeting for service during the week and there wa no brother around the sister giving the prayer HAD to wear a head covering. Get with the program Shauna.
57. You know this to be true, as a matter of fact there was a Watchtower about two yearsago that went into detail about what was and was notallowed. For example we all know oral sex is wrong because "homosexuals do it" and it is considered unclean.
68.Not sure but would be glad to research it and come back with some info.
83.Shauna at the next memorial I DARE you to try and partake, there was a Watchtower study that actually suggested that if any one though they were of the anointed and they were born after a certain date, well that they might need to consider the possibility that they have mental problems and might need medication. I remember this b/c I LOL during the Watchtower study.
93.I call bull Shauna, we all know that the society has taught that this will be the case, if you are not a witness you are bird food, shall we post pictures from the Revelation book?
I can back up all of my statements using the Watchtower, Awake and other publications from the Society, would you like me to?and Shauna the "devout JWs" response.
excuse me! i have abeen a witness all of my life. The whoole woman head covering prayer thing. NOT IN PUBLIC, not at the meetings, i am not talking about in public. i mean private like in the home or something more private then up on stage but richard didn't explain that. 93. I would like to see your research on that one because that is not what i have been taught. Jehovah is a giving and forgiving god , why would he destroy someone who has not had the chance to become a witness??? Explain your logic on that on. I read the awakes and watchtowers everytime they come out thank you very much. Stop accusing me of not doing my research but some of the things that you guys are saying i have never heard of and goes against what i was taught through 18 years of being a jw. The problem in richards reply was that he kept stating "must". We "mustn't" do anything. Unless it goes against strick scriptural standards. It is not a LAW that you must marry a non beleiver it is only strongly advised. And if the sisters are talking about this woman with a two door car and talking behind her back about it. Thats gossip which we all know is to be wrong. So before you start to judge me. remember the examples you are using such as two women talking behind another ones back about something as trivial as a car.
I'll post my own reply as soon as I write it.
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suavojr
😳 Facebook 12 years ago and the long list of requirements to be a Jdub
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Vanderhoven7
Here is a revised list which still needs improvement.
1. Jehovah God is not a Trinity
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
3. Jesus Christ is a created being, who at one time did not exist (a.k.a.Michael the archangel)
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
5. Less than 150,000 faithful Christians existed prior to the 20th century.
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 select Jehovah's Witnesses
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no Hell (It is simply the grave)
9. There is no life immediately after death (except for the 144,000)
10. Salvation is acquired by a combination of grace and good works.
11. You cannot be sure of salvation
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
14. Witnesses are discouraged from attending college
15. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918
16. All pastors are the "Antichrist"
17. All churches are of Satan
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. Blood transfusions, donating and or storing blood constitute serious sins.
20. You should avoid being a gun carrying police officer
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
23. You should not buy girl Scout cookies
24. You should attend five meetings per week
25. Jesus' second coming occurred in 1914
26. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness without serious repercussions
27. If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower Society they will be marked or even shunned
28. You are not permitted to read Christian literature from a Christian book store
29. You should not be a cheerleader
30. You are not to celebrate holidays (Christmas, Easter, Mother's Day etc.)
31. You are not to celebrate your birthday or the birthday of others
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
33. You cannot vote in any political campaign
34. You are discouraged from serving on a jury
35. You are discouraged from giving to charity (except to Watchtower causes)
36. You cannot speak to former members who are disfellowshipped or disassociated
37. You cannot accept Christmas gifts
38. You should read and study Watchtower literature regularly
39. Only the Jehovah's Witnesses leadership can understand the Bible
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization
41. Jesus did not die on a cross but an upright pole
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
44. You must do field service which often involves going from door to door weekly to gain converts
45. You are discouraged from having friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
46. You should see and refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister"
47. You are discouraged from playing team sports.
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is regularly reported to elders rather than the police
50. You should forgo vacations to attend annual conventions
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's
52. Men in North America cannot wear beards without repercussions but mustaches are OK
53. Men are not to have long hair.
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat or head covering
55. You should not go for a tattoo
56. You're forbidden to use any tobacco products
57. Only officially approved sexual practices are encouraged in marriage
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed)
59. You are not to own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away evil spirits)*
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material
61. You should not use pet foods or fertilizers made with blood or blood products
62. You are to avoid joining any clubs or sports teams
63. You should not wear jade jewelry
64. You should not purchase Christian bookstore products including music, plaques, pictures etc.
65. You should not wear any Christian jewelry produced through non-Witness sources
66. Jehovah's Witness meeting places tend to have few or no windows
67. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you are to turn them in to the elders to be interrogated
68. Jesus could have sinned and failed in his mission
69. Jesus was not born the Christ but became Christ at his baptism
70. The Watchtower organization is God's prophet on earth today
71. Women must submit to their husbands and Watchtower elders
72. You cannot support your country by taking oaths of allegiance or voting
73. One must study Watchtower books at least six months before he can be baptized
74. Before baptism, one must answer over 80 questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the Jehovah's Witnesses
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride)
77. Kingdom Halls are not to have pews for seating
78. JWs are are fobidden to say "good luck"
79. God is not omniscient "all knowing"
80. God is not omnipresent
81. God uniquely speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York
82. The Holy Spirit indwelling is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by these select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 group-99.99% of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
84. The Lord's supper can only be offered once per year
85. JWs in times of crisis, are strongly discouraged from consulting with family counselors, including mental health professionals who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
86. With rare exceptions only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon
87. If you have a non-Witness spouse your first loyalty is to the elders over your spouse
88. Jesus was a god, but not Almighty God.
89. Judgment day is 1000 years long
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization and do not repent and return, you will not be resurrected
91. Only faithful Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God
92. Man's salvation is secondary in God's plan; Jesus was sent to "vindicate Jehovah's name"
93. You are forbidden to attend a funeral of an ex-Jehovah's Witness
94. You forbidden to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes.
95. You should avoid entering or working in a church building
96. You must never attend a church service with a view to worshipping with non-Witnesses
97. You cannot be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling
98. You should avoid participating in a school play
99. You should not donate your organs when you die
100. You can never openly disagree with anything printed in current Watchtower literature
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Nevuela
What's wrong with jade jewelry?