HELP! I need some answers.....

by onlycurious 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  onlycurious

  I spoke with my jw friend yesterday and was very surprised when she was discussing a woman in her cong that is committing adultry. I know the woman and told my friend I am surprised they didn't df her years ago. She cheats on hubby on a regular basis but nothing seems to have been done about it.

  So, I said, "Let me ask you this. If she were df, would you practice your shunning policy?" Her answer was, "Yes." This surprised me because she is such a nice person. Different in many ways than most jw's, not just because she is nice. She is just more liberal than most. ie...she set foot in my church a few times and is friends with A LOT of non-jw's.

  I told her I was completely surprised she would do that and she said it really depended upon who it was. If it was her sister....she would still have contact. She said she just couldn't adhere to shunning her sister. Regarding others, she still smiles at them but just doesn't associate.

  I explained this was completely foreign to me and I didn't understand where they would get that. I went in to a few stories of people in leadership in my church that had done the 'unspeakable' and how it was dealt with. (counsel and restoration, not shunning)

  She said she is going to bring in the scriptures for me so I understand her TEXTBOOK answers. Funny, but the answers she had were word for word the same as my other jw employee. But they aren't "brainwashed?"

  Any suggestions on scriptures I could use that would be effective in refuting the shunning policy?
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  VanillaMocha73

  John 8 (I think) - where Jesus did not shun the adulteress lady that the Pharisees brought to him...
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  Madame Quixote

  How about "Love thy neighbor"

  Also, "love thy enemy"

  "Turn the other cheek"

  the golden rule - isn't there a version of that in the bible? there seems to be a version of it in most religions . . .
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  Madame Quixote

  also - "to the extent that you did it to the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me . . .

  who did Jesus shun? Not the prostitutes, not the tax collectors; probably not even the Pharisees.
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  onlycurious

  Thanks. I am wondering though if she is going to say they are loving them by disciplining them when they have done something wrong. Also, I am fairly certain she is going to use 1 Corinthians 5:9-11

  I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with any who claim to be fellow believers but are sexually immoral or greedy, idolaters or slandereres, drunkards or swindlers. With such persons do not even eat.

  I know this passage will be presented to me as a way of justifying their policy. However, the Bible is very clear that Jesus did not shun anyone. If fact, he ATE with the tax collectors, spoke with the prostitutes, healed on the Sabbath, LOVED everyone and completely went against the grain.

  Do you think the arguement is going to just be "we aren't Jesus."
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  funkyderek

  onlycurious:

  Any suggestions on scriptures I could use that would be effective in refuting the shunning policy?

  That's not actually the way I'd go with this at all. This woman seems to have absolutely no problem associating with a woman she knows to be an adultress, someone who claims to be a fellow believer but is sexually immoral. She would only have a problem associating with this woman if a group of elders found out about the sin. Now that strikes me as self-serving and hypocritical. If I were in your position, I'd focus on why it is the act of disfellowshipping that would cause her to shun her friend rather than the act of adultery.
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  new boy

  What is this sexully immoral women's phone #............I should call her, maybe I can help.LOL
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  reneeisorym

  I would ask her how we know that not associating with the person translates into "they can still go to the kingdom hall but its forbidden to even tell them hello." Ask why they don't make it where you can speak and just be basically polite but refuse to have them over for dinner and social functions.

  In Bible study we learned that the custom for that day was to not allow them to speak to the congregation making it look like the church condoned their actions but it never did mean that you should completely shun the person.

  Also ask why it takes so long to be reinstated. It is the pattern of the Bible that people are to be quickly forgiven. I believe that scripture was only meant for people who refused to repent. But why is it that it takes a year for the congregation to forgive them?

  And -- the scriptures talk about helping those who are sick. Why don't they have programs to help people get over their addicitions and problems? Why do they just through them out with no support and discourage them from visiting councelors? Is that the love the Bible wants us to show.
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  mia_b

  I agree with onlycurious - how come she associates with her knowing what she's doing and would only drop her if shes disfellowshipped - that just doesn't make sense! according to the dubs she should shop her anyway surely?
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  onlycurious

  Thanks for all your responses. This gives me quite a few ways to springboard into a great conversation. She had someone she deeply cared for romantically but they were only friends. He was DF'd and she said she still babysat his daughter because he needed a sitter.

  Believe me, in some ways she is not the normal dub.