by dontknow 71 Replies latest jw experiences
Besides having a million questions for the Witnesses (which they seem to have a ready answer for, always), I suggest you broaden your spiritual quest a little bit. Research some other bible study sources. Ask these other sources the same questions. Note the difference in the clarity and simplicity of the answers.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/
Lady Liberty,
I've just read your story and I must say I have never heard of 607. What is it? Is Russell the founder of the watchtower society and a freemason? If this is correct, where can I found out more about him because freemasons are a secret organisation in collaboration with the skull and bones society who dominate the world; you know the current world power administration.
Cheers
What is the rush to get baptized?
My understanding is that while you are studying and living up to Christian principles and
attending the meetings and speaking well of Jehovah and his people, you qualify for Jehovahs loving attention and help.
We ask you not to rush into it, because most of us regret rushing into it.
If we knew then what we know now, we never would have gotten baptized.
I was definitely pressured to study and get baptized. I found out later that the gal I studied with was a pioneer who had made it her goal to bring three people in that summer. I was just one of two who succumbed to her persuasion. She pressured and begged me to get baptized at the summer assembly. Finally I said ok and then she threatened to call me a liar if I didnt go through with it.
I expressed doubts to an elder one day before the summer assembly and she broke down in tears telling him she had a party planned after the assembly and gifts and all.
After he heard my doubts he assured me if I waited until I was perfect I would never get baptized.
Ok. Whatever. This made sense to me and so I went ahead with it.
Shortly after this pressure filled summer, the JW girl had a nervous breakdown, left town and I maybe saw her twice over the next 35 years. She rarely said hi to me and never called or wrote.
So the question is, why rush it? (I can only think they might be telling you that the big A is imminent and that the angels of destruction might confuse you with the condemned worldly ones because you are not branded with the JW on your forehead or some such nonsense. Remember Rahab who expressed faith in Jehovah and was spared, she and her family (who by the way expressed no faith) when Jericho was destroyed.
Even if you do not get baptized right away, you are in a good position if the big A comes.
Dont worry.
Anewme
607 - ask one of them how they got to 1914 and they will begin with 607. Ask them where they got to 607 and you will get plenty of information but no real facts. Research in any encyclopedia or website or secular site and you will find this date to be completely made-up.
As for the "or else" check out their own publications:
*** w52 3/1 pp. 141-142 pars. 13-18 Propriety of Disfellowshiping ***
What is the congregation going to do now with such an individual? We must keep in mind that this person has been disfellowshiped and is not a member of our company. We want to avoid him, we want nothing to do with him.
14 Now meetings that are open to the public he can attend as long as he behaves himself and acts orderly. If that individual comes into a public meeting, say, a public lecture in a public auditorium, or Kingdom Hall, or city park, or a Watchtower study or a service meeting, it is public, the doors are open, and he may be admitted. If he comes into that meeting and sits down, as long as he is orderly, minds his business, we have nothing to say to him. Those who are acquainted with the situation in the congregation should never say “Hello” or “Good-by” to him. He is not welcome in our midst, we avoid him. If this one should be sitting in the Watchtower study and raise his hand, the chairman should never recognize him or allow him to make a comment. He is not one of us. He is not a recognized member in God’s congregation. Those who are informed and know the individual certainly should avoid him, have nothing to say to him. He has no privileges of service in the congregation whatsoever. He could go over to the book counter and get literature at the regular public rates, but the company should never give him books or magazines at company rates, because he is not one of us. What we would do for the public, for those in the Devil’s organization, we may do for that one.
15 If this one goes out in the field service, maybe getting the books at the counter at the regular rates instead of company rates or pioneer rates, and goes out from door to door, we cannot stop him. He has just as much right to go from house to house as anyone else if he wants to, but this congregation will not give him any territory. They will not accept his reports. When they come in he will not be one of those listed as a publisher in this company. He might put his report in the report box, but we tear it up and we throw it away. He is not one of us. He is a representative of the Devil’s organization trying to corrupt, disturb. He is not clean, and until that individual repents and changes his course of action he can never come back and be one of the Lord’s people.
16 So then the company is careful about him. It removes his card from the file of recognized Kingdom publishers. He is never given any of the monthly printed Informant. He may retain his Counsel booklet if he wishes, because this, if he reads it, might show him the course of action he should take. If he reads The Watchtower, if he reads the books of the Society, they show him the course that he should take; but as long as he does not take that course he is not welcome in the congregation.
17 If this individual becomes noisy or obstreperous he should be kept out of the Kingdom Hall and public meetings. That is the company’s perfect right. Otherwise, it may be that, if he comes into the public meetings and quietly hears the admonition and the counsel given in the studies, he will wake up, become ashamed, and repent.
18 Now how about private home meetings? Under no circumstances should he be welcomed or allowed to enter a private home, because the Scriptures are very definite on that point. So then in our home Bible studies, or what we call “area studies”, the person of the house, being one of God’s congregation, should keep him out. For 2 John 9, 10 (NW) states: “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say farewell to him.” So then in your private homes you would never open the door and allow that one to come in. You would never extend your hand in fellowship to such an individual. Remember, that individual at one time left the Devil’s organization. He was washed clean by the blood of Christ, he dedicated himself to God and God consecrated him for service. He was a minister. Now he has gone corrupt because he chooses to do so. He is sinning against the holy spirit. He is fighting against God. We cannot have anything to do with him. God is the one that is judging him, and he is using his servants in the earth to point that one out for the protection of the rest of the congregation.
*** bh p. 217 1914—A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy ***
The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14. - Nice succint comment right? When Jerusalem fell. note the lack of references
Pro JW 607 view - http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/default.html
Secular view - http://www.2001translation.com/607.htm
What I have discussed with JWs is that Jehovah created man with a precious gift called a free will to exercise, think and do what is appropriate for him and not to have someones will imposed on him.
You will not be allowed to exercise your free will once you become a baptized JW, although they will NOT tell you that in advance! If you value that gift, don't let any organization take it away from you.
Swalker
Dear Dontknow,
If you have studied from the Knowledge book you will find information on the importance of 607 in there. If you turn to page 96 para.16-17 it will give you an idea of why it is taught. I have the Watchtower on CD-Rom, so I am going to copy and paste for you those two paragraphs from the book.
16 The only city in all the earth upon which Jehovah placed his name was Jerusalem. (1 Kings 11:36) It was also the capital of a God-approved earthly kingdom typical of God’s heavenly Kingdom. Therefore, the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E. was very significant. This event marked the beginning of a lengthy interruption of God’s direct rule over his people on earth. Some six centuries later, Jesus indicated that this period of interrupted rule was still in effect, for he said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."—Luke 21:24.
17
During "the appointed times of the nations," worldly governments would be allowed to interrupt rulership approved by God. That period began with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., and Daniel indicated that it would go on for "seven times." (Daniel 4:23-25) How long is that? The Bible shows that three and a half "times" equal 1,260 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Twice that period, or seven times, would be 2,520 days. But nothing noteworthy happened at the end of that short period of time. By applying "a day for a year" to Daniel’s prophecy and counting 2,520 years from 607 B.C.E., however, we arrive at the year 1914 C.E.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
This is taken from their publication Bible Topics for Discussion under Chronology:
6.
ChronologyA.
1914(C.E.)endsGentileTimesLine of kingdom rulers interrupted, 607 B.C.E. Eze 21:25-27
"Seven times" to pass until rule restored. Da 4:32, 16, 17
Seven = 2 × 3 1 /2 times, or 2 × 1,260 days. Re 12:6, 14; 11:2, 3
A day for a year. [Makes 2,520 years] Eze 4:6; Nu 14:34
To run until Kingdom’s establishment. Lu 21:24; Da 7:13, 14
(Sorry I cannot get my black ink back..everything is coming up in red..???)
What's crazy is this teaching was adopted by Russell from William Miller, a Second Adventists. As far as wether Russell was a Free Mason, there are ALOT of people who believe he was, and many who don't. Personally I feel he had some sort of connection with them as he often refered to them in the early publications as friends. I am going to give you a link on Russell that will probably answer alot of your questions about him. He was the Watchtowers first President.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell
I hope this helps answer some questions.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
that is obeying the WT society and leaving my family
dontknow - my only advice would be to slow down....for a few years, so that you can investigate, learn, question and make a well informed decision. Once baptized, you will see the change but until that time, most will be at their very best. Do not fool yourself - JW's are master manipulators and they are taught that lying to people is appropriate if they can justify it under 'theocratic warfare'. I saw this myself. Two sisters came to my door a few weeks ago and we began an animated discussion about why I don't buy into their religion. Every single JW fully understands what the words disfellowshipping and shunning mean - yet when I told them that I did not agree with disfellowshipping, they looked at me and told me to my face that not only do they not understand the term, but that they do not practice such a thing. That was a bold faced law. Nothing else - and that meant that every single other word out of their mouths would be unbelievable. I understand the practice very well since we are shunned by every single family member and I have been witness to what happens to the relationships between non JW family and JW's. It's a cult. I don't even know if it should be called a religion - just like scientology believes their leadership comes from space; well the JW's might say their leadership comes directly from God but in reality they are a bunch of old men sitting on their golden thrones without a care in the world. sammieswife.
Dear Dontknow,
Here are a couple of great sites that may be very helpful to you.
http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/russell_mason/wasrussellmason.html
http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/jwhistory.html
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
When you decide to give your life up to Jesus and serve Jehovah there are changes to come. The bible encourages us to PUT ON the NEW personality. It is a gradual undertaking. Do not expect perfection from yourself. Set goals or from anyone else. Hope things work out for you.
