For those not familiar, I faded from the organization many years ago and my wife hasn't been to any meetings or service in about 5-6 years either. Though she insists she's still a JW so we don't celebrate holidays and the children aren't allowed to participate in holiday activities at school.
I was content for many years to just let her do her own thing, but when the children started going to school I noticed how confusing it was for them. I brought it to her attention a couple months ago and it didn't go well. Essentially it came down to she felt that beliefs as a witness were more important than our marriage and for the first time ever we discussed getting a divorce.
Since that time neither of us has mentioned anything but she continued on to restrict the kid's activities at school.
Last night I sat down with my son to try to get his input.
I asked him what he thought about holidays at school and he mentioned that they were doing Valentines art. I asked him how that made him feel and he said that we didn't like it. I pressed a bit further asking him why he doesn't like it.
"Because it has hearts"
Are hearts bad? I asked.
"I don't know, but there's also kissing"
Is kissing bad?
He just sat there silent, obviously not sure what to say. Frankly I wasn't expecting that answer. The last thing I want is for our sons to grow up emotionally stunted about relationships.
I reaffirmed that hearts are okay and so is kissing and that mom and dad kiss all the time. He cracked a slight smile then escaped back to playing.
I went upstairs to raise the issue with my wife again. I asked her what she thought the children's view of the holidays were. She confessed that she hadn't really talked to them much so I filled her in on what our son told me. She was about as disturbed as I was.
Her comment was "Well I guess we'll have to teach them properly about why we don't celebrate the holidays"
I let that comment hang in the air for a bit before I just laid it out "but we don't have the same view on the holidays do we?"
This opened up a longer conversation about what to do with the children and we made some good progress. We were able to come to a compromise. The kids can now participate in holiday activities at school, but she doesn't want the holidays at home. So no Christmas lights, halloween decorations etc.
I can respect that. I may not believe what JW's believe, but I have no more right to decorate the house counter to her beliefs than she did telling the kids not to participate at school. So our home is going to be neutral ground but I can still take them out to parties and they can participate at school.
She called our oldest son upstairs to talk about Valentines day. She told him that hearts and kissing were okay and he looked at us and said "I know, I already talked with dad". So she asked what his class was planning for Valentines and he said that they were giving out candies. Everyone in the class made a "candy bag" but he didn't make one because it was in the form of a heart. He was told to play on the computer instead during craft time.
Well that broke my wife's heart. She asked him if she could help him make a bag and after a bit of back and forth we realized we didn't have the proper materials. He just grabbed a grocery bag and said that he'd take that. I'm not sure how well that will go over in school, but they're both happy. My wife still felt bad, she told him "Sorry honey, mommy will do better next year"
That was a bit interesting since she's willing to take an active role in their holiday activities, something that she said she wanted no part of just 20 minutes earlier.
After that, I thought I'd give her an update on what's going on in the organization, I informed her about the new watchtower announcement, she had no idea about the Awake cut back to monthly and explained blood fractions to her. Her reply, "wow, I'm really behind the times, sounds like I have alot of reading to do"
We talked a bit about the child molestation issue and the two witness rule. In talking she made the mental link that molesters would be attracted to the organization and I confirmed that the society has a database of 20,000 known pedophiles but they are fighting about turning it over to the government. I mentioned that now, alot of the children that were molested have grown up and it's all coming back at the society in the form of legal action. She was very annoyed and said that the society should just turn the deviants over to the authorities.
That was about it, she has some things she needs to get caught up on with the organization and I hope her research leads her to a site like this. She asked what the next big holiday coming up was and I said it was our son's birthday. She shrugged and said that's not much of a biggie. I told her that I'd most likely take him out with the neighbors to a restaurant and she just nodded and looked a bit distant. The look on her face didn't look like she was annoyed with the idea of her son celebrating his birthday, but that he was going to go have fun and that she's not a part of it.
I have a strong suspicion that she'll come along as well. She's a great wife and a wonderful mother, I think it will eat her up not being part of her kids enjoyment. After the birthday party when she sees that nobody got their head chopped off (hopefully) she might take a more active role in the holidays.
This is a major breakthrough for me. If she wants to continue thinking she's a Witness, I'm fine with that. But now I can properly protect my children and let them grow up normally.
Update: Discussion with my wife last night
by Paralipomenon 18 Replies latest jw friends
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Paralipomenon
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Warlock
I never thought I'd ever say this, but that is GREAT NEWS. It will save your kids from a lot of emotional damage.
Warlock
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brunnhilde
Para, that really is wonderful. My husband was hinting around at doing the "we're not dubs but we don't do holidays" and I said, no way. That's hypocritical - either we're in and we're doing it right, but if we're out (and we are OUT!!) then there is NO reason to put him through that! I'm so SO happy you were able to find some middle ground for your kids. I suspect your wife will start figuring out how silly the whole thing is since she's already willing to participate helping your kids. Good for you both!
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OnTheWayOut
I don't have kids, so it's different here. My wife is still very active in the JW's and
I am still fading- almost inactive now- just a few more months, then I will be a barely
attending inactive JW slipping down toward never attending.Your post is very positive. Even if the wife took no action, she realized that she
should not keep the kids in the isolation of JW practices. That would be a bit
hypocritical since she doesn't practice. I can only imagine your heart elevating
when she offered to help the kid with his pagan stuff.Many ex-JW's don't do decorations at home. That would be an awefully big step.
I don't imagine I would, even if the wife and I were both out of the Borg, but you
can make progress on birthdays and holidays.Very great post- gives me hope.
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Mysterious
Good job protecting your kids. I know a family in a similar situation. Neither the husband nor the wife has been to meetings in years but the kids don't do holiday stuff in school and they aren't sure why. It doesn't help that the relatives confuse the kids by telling them these things are bad but not helping them to understand. I feel so bad for them being ridiculed for standing up for things they don't even believe in or know what it's about.
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Paralipomenon
We're pretty snowed in here so I had to do a conference call for work from home before heading to the office. When I headed out I went to get her a coffee and a dozen long stem pink roses. This isn't anything new, I've gotten her flowers on Valentines day for years. (pink roses for valentines, red for anniversary) This was a bit different this morning.
She's never minded the flowers since at the core she felt that we were still witnesses. In light of last nights chat it was a bit different. She grabbed the coffee and hesitated a bit to take the flowers. Then she smiled, took the flowers and gave me a kiss.
It's a great Valentine's day so far. -
found-my-way
Happy Romantic Valentine's Day Para, I think it's great that your wife is coming around
Being in ontario as well, snowed in here a bit......I had a discussion with my children's kindergarten teacher, and i told her that I dont mind that my kids participate in the classroom holiday activities, but that they probably wont be actively participating (like bringin in valentines cards, christmas cards..etc.) I explained that while it doesnt bother me, it would get back to my in-laws (die-hard JW's) and that they would practically burn me at the stake for getting my kids to participate in ''pagan'' holidays....
she was a little confussed when I told her that my family are not speaking to me, but that the kids are unaware of that as they are too young to understand...(tho they probably pick up on the fact that grandma only takes them, and never mommy)
....maybe one day my hubby and I will be able to celebrate freely the holidays with our kids, especially birthdays, as those days are special to both him and I...
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carla
I'm glad you are getting your wife to think. I don't understand how you consider her no holiday rule in the house as neutral though. Is that kind of like the women who look at their husbands paychecks as ours and her paycheck as hers?
My child knows a jw in school, the girl is weird, weird, weird. Sorry to say it but that's the way it is. From her clothes to her conversation. The other jw girl, an elders daughter has had to quit all extra ciriccular activities and no longer smiles much. She used to be quite lively from what I saw, now she walks with her head down and doesn't seem to have any friends anymore. They become like lepers, nobody want to be seen with the weird kid lest anybody think they are as weird. Nice? maybe not, that's the way it is. Lonliness is what jw parents inflict on their own children for what? a publishing company claiming the Divine. Thank God, literally, I never let my kids near a hell.
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LeslieV
At least your wife was willing to compromise...that is a big deal in the JW mindset. Good luck to the both of you...your kids will appreicate not feeling so different than everyone else.
Leslie
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AK - Jeff
Great news, this!
Your wife seems reasonable. IMO, one thing that aids persons to finally get caught up in the dissonance that will eventually break the WTS control, is time away from the organization. Unfortunately sometimes this seems to lead to the inevitable question 'Why am I out here waiting to die- I better get back to the meetings."
In your case it may lead the other way. I hope so. Her mind is cleared enough after '5 or 6 years' to begin thinking again, as gaged by her responses to the 'new things in the organization'. She's coming around. The love of her children is beginning to make it impossible to not get a grip on what is right and what isn't.
Jeff