by Warlock 84 Replies latest social current
JUST TO CLARIFY MY POSITION:
I BELIEVE GLOBAL WARMING IS A CYCLE OF NATURE AND NOT MAN MADE. I DO NOT DENY THINGS MAY BE GETTING HOTTER. MY CONTENSION IS THE CAUSE.
ABADDON: I NEVER SAID ANYONE WITH YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS STUPID, AND I NEVER WILL. IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT INTERPETATION OF THE EVENT.
Warlock
Warlock,
Even climate skeptics believe that recent warming is anthropogenic- they just debate on HOW LARGE our role has been...
Did you look at the graphs I posted?? It is sort of "Global Change 101" - if someone is going to be vocal about their opinion on warming, they should at least have looked at them, maybe even know the science behind them... did you even look at the graphs??
Even when they applied the statistics the skeptics wanted, the results showed some remarkable trends...
respectfully,
-K
"What you bet is irrelevent ...."
I don't post here because I think I change people that's not my brand of 'Qc arrogance'. I'm certain that nobody leaves this site in awe at my infalliblity and professor level knowledge of everything. I hope people read my thoughts along with everyone elses as another independent viewpoint. When I post I don't feel a need to spend several hours preparing a detailed essay just to please the pretend schoolteachers here and get my grade. So in the spirit of an independent writer I say 'Abaddon go soak your head if you think I'll dance to your tune'. Ah feels much better.
In the meantime I'll restate quite clearly that despite reading extensively (though just the same as every poster here not having read everything) and balancing the arguments against each other I am still utterly unconvinced that humans are that influential in global systems. Scare tactics sell newspapers, garner research grants, open up new sales avenues and are cool. We love to blame humans for everything (if temperatures go down we're responsible, if they go up we are responsible ad nauseum.) I contend that no matter what arguments are put forward for past temperatures we cannot do more than make educated guesses what the temperature was we don't know - it takes humans to write down exact figures nature is far too sloppy. We can no more tell exact temperatures from ice cores today than we can for the past they just aren't that accurate. I'll do my bit for global conservation of resources but I refuse to let the government put up prices to fill their coffers without a fight nor will I be motivated by fear or intimidation.
Some info to mull over and balance up the comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_stick_controversy
and I like this rough resume
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
SPECTRE!!!!!!!!!!
Damn you! You've just set my carefully constructed argument on its ear with your concise repudiation of the facts!!!!!!
I'll never win!
p.s. are the bikini babes out??
Thought you might hate me for that. heh-heh. Sadly, no bikinis yet.
That the Earth has under-floor heating prehaps?
Who would believe something as illogical as this! - Volcanoes are caused by pixies didn't you know??
I apologise in advance Abaddon I just couldn't resist.
I looked at you articles Qcmbr -the glacial one has some facts but draws odd conclusions- the stuff about us going into a "cooling period" Ihave commented on that specifically but you never point to any facts I state to refute... Did you read what I said about that?
Yes we go through ice ages on 100,000 or 40,000 year periods for the past million years but there is a natural renage of variability for those periods-
i.e. glacials: CO2 = 200ppm and interglacials CO2=275 ppm.
we are now at a high of 380ppm of CO2. outside of the natural range of variability that has existed for the last almost million years...
And the wikipedia article- I'm not sure if you're actually reading these things or just posting them cause you naver make any specific points, but here is a quote from it that about sums it all up...
The Wegman report has itself been criticized for a number of things:
For what it's worth,
-K
Kudra - the wikipedia site is describing the controversy - I just thought it useful to explain the controversy - I didn't post that as a refutation or support of anything - just a filler article.
As for reading your posts links I confess I work long hours (I am in my unwind phase after another weekend slog) and so I haven't read your links. As for specific points I think I do make very specific points - they may not be about the 'exact temperature of Lowestoft on Friday' type points but they are about avoiding the scaremongering, seeing the raising of prices as another marketing trick and one of my personal bugbears the fun that is statistics. I am so less impressed by the linear collapse of facts into pretty graphs that show what the promoter wants them to. Temperatures fluctuate all over the globe - there is no such thing as a global average (there is however an average of all data compiled.) We don't know how the greatest two climate controllers (the ocean and the sun) will respond to changes (we can theorise about currents switching off and about methane deposits bubbling up but we don't know.) I'm much more inclined to wait and see rather than being moved by the media hype. As I've said many times I'm far more concerned with human greed than with global warming.
As a hopefully final point if we truly believe that we make that much of a difference why are we still driving our cars? - its easy to say you believe in global warming but if you really believed it surely your actions would drastically alter beyond recycling wine bottles. To make this clear if I believed the more extreme scientists doomsday predictions I'd be looking to move right now to a remote location with nearby hunting and water resources since resource war would be the result of billions of displaced people and I'd be looking to bunker down and provide a measure of self sufficiency for my descendents. I honestly don't think we all believe it deep down - just my thoughts.
A bit off topic...
Kudra wrote, "I personally have spent the last 2 1/2 years working on my doctorate on glacial retreat."
I've been to Antarctica and that explains why I am frozen one. Good luck on your dissertation. I had the priviledge of being around a few of your kind on the Ice.
Frozen One on Ice
"It is NOTHING like the complete consensus of climatologists and paleoclimatologists today that have found that the current warming trend that is above what can be accounted for by solar, orbital and volcanic forcing IS caused by humans." This statement is typical of "the sky is falling" crowd and is of course complete BS as is most of this kind of rhetoric. As far as the statement by the 2500 'scientists' goes, once again that's misinformation. Only about 100 of the 2500 are remotely qualified to comment on this subject, the rest are political flaks. What was released was a 'summary' which according to reputable reports goes far beyond the actual conclusions of the report and which was once again put together by a bunch of ax grinding politicians.
