You know, JWs are humans just like everyone else. Being a member of any religious faith doesn't preclude one from committing hienous crimes. If one is to judge the WT Society by what its' individual members might do then we in all fairness should judge all other organizations (religious or otherwise) on the same basis.
BIG JW MASS MURDER (another one)
by DannyHaszard 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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blondie
I will add to this, we don't know all the circumstances. In one area, there were 2 separate incidents. A brother kidnapped his wife at gunpoint and the police were able to arrest him without anyone getting shot. In the same area a brother pointed a gun at his wife's head and pulled the trigger, fortunately the gun jammed. In each case the body of elders were aware that each man had guns and both were acting in an erratic manner yet did nothing to help their families. I would hold those elders responsible for their knowledge of a dangerous situation and doing nothing to help.
I was stunned when I found this out. The elders were even encouraging the sisters to go back to their husbands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blondie
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DannyHaszard
..SAY YOUR PRAYERS".. Puzzling over man behind massacre
Philadelphia Inquirer, PA - 10 minutes ago
The couple settled in Newark and attended a Jehovah's Witness congregation in Maryland, their minister told the Wilmington News Journal last week. ... [email protected]city editor [email protected]reporter on case off till tuesdayPuzzling over (JW) man behind massacre
He went from bankruptcies to a big investment. How? A popular Phila. partner was one of his victims. Why?
By Larry King, Mari A. Schaefer and Jane M. Von Bergen
Inquirer Staff Writers
Two bankruptcies. Liens. A black Lexus in the driveway, but a living scratched out riding freight trains. At 44, Vincent J. Dortch had displayed little evidence of financial wizardry. Yet somehow he came up with $200,000 to invest in a New York real estate venture. Ultimately, that money meant more than life to him. Fearing his partners were cheating him, Dortch exploded - killing three and then himself - in a bloody investors meeting Monday night at Philadelphia's Navy Yard. Police remain befuddled, both by the origin of Dortch's cash and by his angst over losing it. Detectives hope his widow, Stephanie, will have answers when they speak this week. "Was it his money? Was it her money? Was it their money at all?" pondered homicide Sgt. Ron McClane. "If you have that kind of money to lose, it's not that bad. But if you don't... that's when you go crazy." Described repeatedly as polite and meticulous, Dortch fired on a meeting he had arranged of investors in Watson International Inc. In January 2006, the new corporation had bought a historic country club formerly owned by IBM in New York for $1.3 million. Six months later, flooding ravaged the group's fledgling plans to convert the property into a banquet and conference center. Insurance money was forthcoming, but Dortch, of Newark, Del., suspected his partners were skimming money for personal use. Federal authorities have been asked to investigate. Meanwhile, two families prepared to bury three loved ones who grew up together in Endicott, N.Y. Saturday services were held in Bear, Del., for brothers Robert E. Norris, 41, of Newark, Del., and Mark David Norris, 46, of Pilesgrove, N.J. Services for James M. Reif Jr., 42, of Endicott, N.Y., were scheduled for tomorrow in Endicott. While arrangements for Dortch were not announced, a more complete picture of the gunman began to emerge. Monica Douglas was 17 in 1993 when her mother, Diann, married "Vinnie," the man she had met in a club in Brooklyn, N.Y. The bride was 42, a widowed mother of two. The groom, 30, had three children who lived apart from him. When Dortch moved in, he brought only trash bags filled with clothes, said Douglas, 31. "He came into my mom's life with nothing and left with a lot," said Douglas' sister, Erika Roulhac, 35. As a teen, Douglas clashed with her new stepfather, with her late hours and deafness to rules running afoul of him. "He put me out of my mother's house," said Douglas, who ended up staying with a friend and never returning. Their extended family also didn't take to Dortch, the daughters said. Still, "I respected the fact he kept a smile on my mom's face," Roulhac said. He brought her flowers, and would "not only talk but listen" to her. The two dreamed often of future business ventures, she said. Yet a year into the marriage, Dortch filed for bankruptcy. "There wasn't any huge debt; he was out of money," said retired lawyer Frederick Bierer, who represented him. Dortch, he said, had lost his job, exhausted his savings, and owed $29,000, mostly on credit cards. Bierer recalled the 6-foot-4, 250-pound Dortch as "a very good-looking, very articulate, very mild-mannered guy who looked like he could be a linebacker." When Diann Dortch died of breast cancer in 2000, her daughters said, Vincent Dortch inherited a car, a house, an insurance payout of unknown value, and a cleaning business their mother had started. A year later, he had a new wife - and another short-lived bankruptcy. Dortch married Stephanie Jordan, eight years his senior, in 2001. Roulhac said he had told her family that he had begun a truck-driving business. The couple settled in Newark and attended a Jehovah's Witness congregation in Maryland, their minister told the Wilmington News Journal last week. At some point, he met Robert Norris, a New Castle County police officer, and worked with him rehabbing homes, said a Norris family friend who asked not to be identified. Police confirmed that Robert Norris was Dortch's connection to Watson International. Watson incorporated in October 2005. The initial directors were former high school classmates Robert Norris and Reif, who had stayed in the Endicott area as a deputy sheriff. But Dortch was at the table in January 2006 when a group of investors met in New York to discuss their new acquisition, architect Ken Gay recalled. Also present were Robert Norris' brother Mark, a charismatic entrepreneur well-known in Philadelphia, and Vasantha Dammavalam of Flushing, N.Y., a vice president with Mark Norris' marketing firm. Mark Norris, in whose office the shootings occurred, was as energetic as Dortch was placid. Described by friends as stylish and brilliant, Norris claimed that ZigZag, his marketing business, had billings of $2.5 million in 2004. But there were signs of financial struggle as well. In May 2005, Pennsylvania placed a $16,687 lien against ZigZag for payments and penalties due the state's unemployment compensation fund. A lien for $179,562 in back federal taxes was filed in August 2005. In March 2005, Norris was sued by his former Pine Street condominium association over $16,444 in fees. "He lived on the fourth floor with an elevator that never worked," said a friend, Center City lawyer Stuart Davidson. "The buzzer never worked. Is that a justification for not paying his condo fee? It might be." The case was settled. In August 2003, the mortgage holder on a building Norris owned on South Broad Street foreclosed; there had been no payments for two years. A sheriff's sale was scheduled. There were other woes, but "none of this informs what happened at the Navy Yard," Davidson said. "The Mark Norris I knew was a man of extraordinary passion who cared deeply about children. I saw him, on a whim, buy 30 movie tickets for kids he thought needed help." When payroll at his agency was lean, "he pulled it out of his own pocket," Davidson said. In December, Norris bought furniture, gifts, a television and a Christmas tree for a family with children that had been evicted from its home, said Richard L. Chapman, director of Juvenile Justice Center Family Services of Philadelphia. At the investors meeting in January 2006, Norris and Dortch had a dream in common. "They were talking about possibly a hotel and a large conference center," said Gay, whose firm was hired to do a feasibility study. "We were just there to listen to what their dreams were. None of them seemed far-fetched to me." Dortch, he said, was friendly and quiet. Gay did not know how the partners had met or what each had invested. By the time the floods hit in late June, no building or demolition permits had been acquired to begin the work, said Joseph Moody, economic development for the Town of Union, N.Y., near Endicott. The group's paperwork also was lagging. Delaware corporate records show that Watson International never filed its annual report, due March 1, 2006, and still owes taxes from its first year. A second annual report is due in two weeks. In October, Dortch signed on as a trainee rail conductor for CSX Corp. And as he rode long hours on the freight rails, his investment dreams were dying, replaced by suspicion. On Jan. 20, police say, Dortch bought two handguns in Delaware. Ten days later, he made calls from the train, trying to set up an investors meeting. "He had a feeling these guys were committing fraud," said Mark Chalupa, a veteran conductor who was Dortch's trainer on Jan. 30. Monday evening, on the pretense of bringing in a new investor, Dortch arrived at the conference room of ZigZag. At 8:30 p.m., pleasantries were exchanged. Then Dortch pulled one of his guns and, according to police, ended the partnership with these words: "Say your prayers." INSIDE • Two brothers are recalled for their creativity and generosity. A14. • How a firm fights to survive the tragedy. Business, C1.
Contact staff writer Larry King at 215-345-0446 or [email protected]. Inquirer staff writer Joseph A. Slobodzian contributed to this article. -
sf
Too bad. Nice place:
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mcsemike
"Minister" Higgins doesn't know what makes people snap sometimes???? How about the experience of being a JW for years. That will do it. How about not knowing how to think properly? How about believing that no matter what you might do wrong, you'll still get into paradise the second after you kill yourself? This is very dangerous. Many JW's are starting to exhibit the Islamic mentality. "Kill anyone and get into Heaven".
The point about gambling is well taken. I can't buy a lottery ticket for one dollar, most of which goes toward education in my state, but playing the stock market or these "get rich quick" schemes are rampant? How many JW's have gotten themselves and others involved in Amway, Avon, multi-level deals, etc.? I don't know one congregation that hasn't in 35 years. Good points, Mary. Where did the money come from??
To Fairmind: You are correct to a point. But we DO judge organizations by the fruit they produce. Jesus said to do that, did he not?? The WT constantly claims Babylon the Great is NOT the truth because of the results they produce in their members. So I think it's fair to judge the WT by the damage its policies do to its members. As a Psych graduate, I know this subject. It's been established on this forum thousands of times that JW's as a group have far more problems in almost every area of life than the general population. If they had the truth, they would be better people, not worse. Smiling while in the Hall doesn't make up for all the rest of the week when they endure their mental illnesses and other problems.
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VanillaMocha73
I would have to say that I agree - JWs seem to have MORE murders / mental health issues, etc than other groups. As I used to be married to a mentally ill JW, I can testify to the fact that their teaching tends to drive that mental illness rather than heal it. I could see him killing us all at the drop of a hat. The mentality that we will all just wake up in Paradise anyway, that this is the Devils world - it all can drive a mental situation to the brink. The mentality that we are not saved by grace, not under a God of love, it all adds up to be pretty depressing. Or, are mentally ill people drawn to this type of mind control cult? I would never have chosen it on my own, being a fairly healthy person - I was raised this way. The former DH chose it. I wonder....
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anewme
Its funny how one JW is quoted as saying "I just dont understand how some people can just snap!"
I would say to him to read the life stories of exjws here and you would see clearly why some people would snap under all the pressure and lies and control the JWs are under today.
I snapped in 2001. I never told you how my loving JW family called the police on me...........
doesnt matter now.
What is true is that you are going to hear of more and more JWs losing it. -
mcsemike
I'll say it one more time for the record. I am in the psych field and I know many others who are, including some with Doctorate degrees. JW's are the VERY WORSE patients they have. They have just about the highest rates of paranoia, depression, substance abuse, anger issues, self-esteem issues, and many others. If this is "God's organization", I'd hate to see Satan's. (If God's is supposed to be much better.)
JW's will, for the most part, just not see themselves as they really are. They refuse to step out of the box, so to speak, because they are afraid personally of what they'll find, and because they believe God will not like it. Actually, God would love it, it's the WT that wouldn't like it.
JW's have the lowest rate of college graduates at 4.9%, Jews are the highest at 49%. They also have 40 times the rate of depression that the general public has. That doesn't say much for "God's happy people". (I don't have the sources any more, please don't ask.)
I don't know one JW that couldn't go postal if things didn't work out for him. They are ALL capable of it. I'm glad they hate guns, I'd hate to have JW's with carry permits here in Florida walking the streets. I'd never know when he would pull a gun on me and I'd have to draw mine and kill him. THEN you'd hear about "we are so persecuted".