My wife says she's never read where JW's are to submit to FDS and GB

by zack 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  zack

  I have to give her credit that at least she is willing to discuss the misgivings I have with the WTS. Up to this point I have not

  openly stated my disbelief in the JW theology and thinks some of my attitude is just the libertarian streak in me. She said to me that my misgivings were perhaps a "lack of humility" and

  that I was "too smart for my own good". She is a great girl, my wife, and I love her dearly, but I can clearly see the indoctrination and

  witness-speak in her arguments. She said all this to me after discussing the new WT "arrangement.." I simply mentioned that I

  thought that having two sets of scales was not only a little disingenous, but also dangerous. (Yes, I likened the 2 different WT's to

  the scriptural prohibition of using 2 sets of scales--- one for the chumps and one for the leary). She accused me of being cynical and

  seeing some type of malicious conspiracy in what the WTS did. This is when I asked her who her "mediator'' was. Naturally, she

  said "Jesus" to which I said that according to the WTS she did not have a mediator but could only benefit from the ransom by associating with

  the "remnant". She never read that anywhere, she says.

  "Honey," I said, "only by associating with and submitting to the FDS and it's GB can anyone of us even HOPE to saved." (Thus saith the WTS)

  She says she never read that. This from a girl raised in the truth, elder Dad, etc...... So, who can help her refresh her memory?
• 

  JamieL

  Yeah, she needs to read harder.

  At my last reinstatement meeting I heard this.

  "Of course we are loyal to you as a christian and your feelings are important to us. But ultimately we are loyal to the slave."

  Shouldn't that sentence read loyal to Jehovah and submit to Jesus Christ authority over the congregation?
• 

  JamieL

  Just pop in the WT cd and search for "submitting to the slave" or something like that, you should be able to find a ton on it.
• 

  AuldSoul

  On the Watchtower Library CD Rom, chapter one of the book "Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace" consider paragraphs 15 and 16.

  Should be enough. Never been changed or retracted, still current doctrine.
• 

  AuldSoul

  ***

  w018/1p.14MakeYourAdvancementManifest***

  8

  First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time"—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45.
• 

  Hecklerboy

  He ya go.

  Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 Questions from Readers ***

  Questions from Readers

  • Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

  The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.

  Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

  The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under "Mediator"; also God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing for Man's Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading "Leading the Way to a New Covenant"; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading "The New Covenant."

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11 ch.1 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***

  16 Just as the ancient nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God through the mediator Moses, so the nation of spiritual Israel, "the Israel of God," has a covenant relationship through a mediator. (Galatians 6:16) It is as the apostle Paul wrote to his Christian fellow worker: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5) Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah's sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

  8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.

  […]

  11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."—Romans 8:21.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Watchtower 1998 February 1 pp.20-2 The Other Sheep and the New Covenant ***

  10 "Everyone" who "exercises faith in the Son" will benefit from the ransom sacrifice. (John 3:16, 36) Paul said: "The Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for their salvation." (Hebrews 9:28) Today, those earnestly looking for Jesus include surviving anointed Christians of the Israel of God and the millions making up the great crowd, who also have an everlasting inheritance. Both classes thank God for the new covenant and for the life-giving blessings associated with it, including the greater Atonement Day and the ministry of the High Priest, Jesus, in the heavenly Most Holy.

  […]

  13 What happens when the last of the 144,000 realize their heavenly hope? Will the new covenant cease to apply? At that time, there will be on earth no remaining member of the Israel of God. All participants in the covenant will be with Jesus "in the kingdom of [his] Father." (Matthew 26:29) But we remember Paul's words in his letter to the Hebrews: "The God of peace . . . brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant." (Hebrews 13:20; Isaiah 55:3) In what sense is the new covenant everlasting?

  [Emphasis Added]
• 

  SirNose586

  *** Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

  8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.

  […]

  11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."—Romans 8:21.

  That's from Quotes. "Jesus is not your mediator." But it's okay, because if you tie in some haphazard connection to Israelites of old and foreigners living with them, then you can have the same benefit. Or it's like being friends with the participants in a legal case...you're not named in the suit, but somehow you gain benefits by hanging around the anointed.

  In either case--NO MEDIATOR FOR YOU.
• 

  Ticker

  Im sure shes not the only JW who doesn't realize that the watchtower doctrine denies their ability to approach Christ as a mediator. Many don't realize this, and many are unpleasently surprised by it.

  Ticker
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  jayhawk1

  They admit they are imperfect men who do imperfect things. Because of this imperfection, shouldn't JWs submit to Jehovah and not to the "slave?" A true follower of Jehovah should answer, "I report directly to Jehovah's enthroned King (Jesus), not to men."
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  juni

  That is strange Zack that she doesn't recognize that fact. Maybe she's in denial?

  She's heard of them being referred to as "mother" right? They are God's reps here on earth to be obeyed and honored. If you don't, you'll get a smack from "mom" which will happen at some time- guaranteed.

  Juni