Round 2 disastor (page 3)

Merry Magdalene

I'm thinking of you too, and hoping to hear more from you when you can make it back...

~Merry

Black Sheep

Hi TBL, I'm sorry to hear about the mess your parents have gotten you into

I couldn't think straight. I failed and lost miserably

This is not your fault. Your parents have spent years being trained in how to confuse people by continually changing the subject to something they are more comfortable with.

If you ever hope to 'win', if such a thing is possible , you have to make them stick to the subject. If you ask them a question, make them answer it. Do not accept attempts to cast aspersions on your character or motives as excuses not to answer your questions.

Never ask questions on theology. Stick to questioning the validity of WT claims of being spirit directed. Use failed prophesy, flip-flop doctrines/rules, reigns of Bablonian kings (given on the WTCD) to disprove 607 etc..

Don't ask a question unless you know your subject well. Make notes. Know how to use their WTCD to back up your points and to expose any attempts they make to deceive you.

Do not be confrontational. Do not raise your voice, even if they do. If they start shouting, speak quietly. This should force them to lower their voices.

If you don't want to meet with the elders and they try to bully you into it, take the advice of previous posters and get some professional help.

At about your age I put my suitcase out of my bedroom window, had breakfast, said goodbye to my dog, picked up my suitcase and disappeared. My big mistake was that I just wanted to escape WT control, I hadn't found out that it wasn't the Truth. I didn't find out the truth about the Truth until I was 52. By that time it was far to late to try to take my parents out of the cult with me.

I envy you.

Cheers

Chris

thebiggestlie

Well i just had what i'll call "round 3" with my mom only. My father is the dogmatic in your face company man type but my moms the commited yet reasonable type. I have always felt intimidated by my father but i feel more open with my mom. Well we had a discussion about yesterdays watchtower study. The first Ressurection one. And i brought up seemingly inconsistent bible quotes. One paragraph brought up that the annointed must first die in order to get the heavenly reward so i brought up 1 corinthians 15:52,53 which says not all will die and 1 thessalonians 4:16,17 which expresses similar sentiments...well i could tell she was confused and she looked up these issues in the reasoning book and tge wt-cd and still wasnt satisfied. We also talked about the governing body and acts 15 and christs judgement in 1918 and how the society lies in there publications by saying that they had the accurate understanding of 1914 at that time when they didnt....well i think i was more sucessful this time....

thebiggestlie

why did it post my post 3 times? thats weird...oh but thanks for all your loving care and help. I really feel like you are all genuinely concerned. I'm touched. I just hope i can maintain my resolve while still keeping the peace in my house. I wish i could go back and be more cautious but life goes on. I just don't know how to reason with my parents sometimes because the way they see it is it doesnt matter what i have against the wts because A.it's apostate B. Even if its true, theres no other org out there that teaches "basic undeniable truths" ie no-trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, paridise earth. And Revelation 19:1 didnt even make them flinch... well i respect how convicted and "faithful" they are. And the most cliche thing they keep saying is "if this isn't the truth then where else can we go?" and "i just know this is the truth! I feel it so strongly"....

Scully

Sometimes the "submit" key is sensitive... a lot of people have duplicate posts like that. I fixed it for you though.

no other org out there that teaches "basic undeniable truths" ie no-trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, paridise earth.

Well, atheists don't believe in the trinity, hellfire, the immortal soul, and some of us are also committed to making the earth the best it can be.

So maybe there's a comeback in there somewhere that you can use with your folks....

*** ducks and runs from the pitchfork wielding believers ***

RichieRich

Dude, this is sink or swim time.

Start prioritizing right now. What's more important to you- leaving the WT, or keeping your mom's love?

If you want to calm things down with your parents, approach them and tell them that after a long heartfelt prayer with Jehovah, you feel like you can find the answers to your questions, and maintain His love. I don't know if you would lie for self preservation, but i don't think anyone would hold it against you if you did.

If you want to stay a hard line, anti-JW, then keep doing what you're doing. Man up, point out every fallacy you know of- but make sure you know ALL the details. A lot of the time, JWs don't even know where they are supposed to stand on certain issues.

I'm sorry I wasn't aware of this situation when I spoke to you on myspace- I definitely could've given you a lot more pointed advice.

Know that whatever happens, you have the support of the people here. When I was in your situation, it was the people here who pulled me out of the deep emotional valleys that I'm sure we all hit at one time or another.

Remember that quick fixes never hold, and permanent solutions to temporary problems are pointless.

Hit me on AIM man, we'll have some more open diaglogue.

Until then, take care.

AudeSapere

tbl wrote: I just hope i can maintain my resolve while still keeping the peace in my house.

Which resolve are you striving to maintain?

You've got a mountain of issues and actions in front of you right now. Seems like you would do best to prioritize them.

By trying to discuss doctrinal inconsistancies with your parents (difficult for people 2 and 3 times your age and experience) you are inadvertantly causing them to become more domineering.

Is your resolve to speak up for yourself and prove the organization wrong? This might be a resolve to set aside for a bit and take care of other business first.

Peace in your parents house is a good thing to keep. Try to find more neutral things to talk about. Maybe just go-along-to-get-along. For now.

From my personal perspective (3000 miles away and 30 years older ), I think your primary resolves for now should be get a job (full-time to start so you can bank some money) and start scouting out schools. Perhaps make it a goal to start one or two classes in the summer and then full-time in the fall???

Once you are supporting yourself and planning for your future (education) and you have your own place, you can then resume the re-education of your parents - if you choose to.

I think if you keep pushing the religious issues with them now, they will feel that their hands have been forced and they can (and very likely will) make your life more difficult for you. And there is the very real possibility that they will permanently cut you out of their lives. That would be disastrous for all of you.

Maybe give them a little breathing space (just go along with them for now) while you make plans to start laying necessary groundwork for your own life: Employment and Education.

It's probably going to get a little more difficult and uncomfortable before it gets better. But once you finally start on your own with a job and apartment and roommates (or whatever you decide) you will start to find so many fun opportunities that will thrill you. It will get better once you 'thoughtfully' strike out on your own. Just do a little careful planning so you don't burn the family in the process.

-Aude.

done4good

I have to say, by speaking up at all, you WON. This is all new to you, whereas they are parroting words that have existed for over 100 years. Naturally, they were able to cut you to ribbons with scriptures and reasoning and so forth. Give yourself a little time to get your feet under you. And don't feel bad for "losing"... you're well on your way to escaping the crippled life of a cult-member, and doing so before you even reach 20 years of age! You are totally winning!

What AA said.

j

Paralipomenon

Hey TBL, were your parents raised as witnesses?

Gayle

You never know how things can go! My dad was the (almost pounding on the table) father in the WT organization saying "as for me and my household,we will serve Jehovah"(the WT way),, so we kids obeyed, 4 of 5 of us pioneered and went to Bethel ,,grew up,,re-analyzed everything,,we kids were always very open with each other, even all going out around the same time, & wouldn't have ever reported on each other this re-evaluation. Little by little Dad kept coming around and as we talked with Dad (still an elder then) on our experiences and views (which sometimes ended in quite an argument) but he never reported on us,,then Ray Franz book came out & other writings & he read everything and was the 1st one disfellowshipped for apostasy, then one of my brothers was disfellowshipped in the mid-80's. So my Dad & brother then went to the Phoenix Republic newspaper and the Religion editor did a "whole" page article on their experience. It was awesome,,I'll try soon to see about getting a copy of that on the Forum for ones to see. My Dad & brother were very public then, the others of us just quit going,not officially disfellowshipped,,but actually there was an unofficial disfellowshipping of the rest of us. We've so enjoyed raising our own children free from cultic thinking........so I say,,love and respect your parents ("forgive them for they know not what they do") try to keep the peace with your parents (and try not to get disfellowshipped at this point yet if you can), and keep growing yourself in your education, start planning your college. You have a better life ahead of you, I promise.

Round 2 disastor

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