If the bible is from God then explain this!

by Anti-Christ 104 Replies latest jw experiences

  • ringo5
    ringo5
    "In the fundamentalist view, unbelievers have only two relevant attributes: They are potential converts and sources of temptation. As objects of evangelism, they are called 'crops to be harvested,' 'sheep to be found,' and 'fish to be netted.' Because of the danger of worldly influence (much like a contagious disease), relationships with 'them' must be handled gingerly. Contacts must be superficial, geared toward evangelism only, and cut short if there is not a positive response. Since Christians are already full of truth, there is no need for them to listen, nothing for them to learn, and much for them to lose by admitting alternative views into their consciousness." Marlene Winell, Leaving the Fold (Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 1993), pp. 76-77.

    Thanks for that AntiChrist. (great handle!)

    The JW's don't like to think of themselves as fundamentalists, but that is an accurate description of my view of "worldlies" growing up, and I am pretty sure the prevailing attitude has only hardened toward "unbelievers" since then.

    As a newly deconverted "unbeliever", it will be interesting to see how long they will put up with someone questioning the supposedly divine origin of the bible next time they come calling....

    Cheers

  • SPAZnik
    SPAZnik

    Mad wrote: he has NO JOY in putting a wicked person to death. His Son won't either- but it will HAVE to be done, or man will murder, mangle, rape & destroy till the "Sun Goes Out!".

    SPAZ writes: If all things are possible with God, then why does it HAVE to be that way? If his creation is so bad and God is capable of bringing people to things like perfection and immortality, then I don't understand why God can't/wouldn't just FIX the people he so detests, rather than DESTROYING them. If God is love, and everything the bible says about love, then wouldn't that be preferable?

  • BrentR
    BrentR

    Here are a couple hundred more that will make you scratch your head.

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

  • GoingGoingGone
    GoingGoingGone

    Ok, now I'm saving this list too!

    GGG

  • Mad
    Mad

    Nvr wrote: "Here's a question to inform your questions. If all of the sacred texts of all religions were in some way lost without the means to reproduce them, would any deity be so obviously existent and involved in the affairs of humanity that all thinking, intelligent persons would accept it's/his/her godship without debate? Illustration: If all scientific documentation of the theory of gravity were lost, in short order the theory could be rewritten based on unbiased, universal experience."

    Mad writes: Very interesting, NVR. Not applicable, here, however; it appears that a long time ago He chose to give guidance to rebellious mankind; he's letting him rebel all the way to the bitter end-yet has preserved the scriptures to provide guidance & perception of what truly IS right & wrong, and Christ's words alone have reached all corners of the globe to inspire people in the most unlikely places. It even inspires those, like Gnanda, that reject Christianity; they see the truth of it's principles.

    Yes, without the Bible- or any other Religious Book- one can learn of Him...but I am extremely grateful for the Power it gives me, the insight, the glimpses to the beginning of Mankind- instead of the Fish-to-Monkey-to Man Drivel!

    Agape, Mad

  • Mad
    Mad

    Anti-Christ wrote: "Ok, maybe but the people of Israel had absolute proof no reason to doubt(according to the OT) that all of their techings were from God, we don't. If God is all powerful, loving and He does not want anybody to be distroyed why does His word have so many contradictions and is so ambiguous? I wish you would have a litle more faith in humanity.Yes we did do a lot of nasty things but we have done a lot of great things and we are still doing great things."

    Mad writes: Hah! I KNEW you had a charming side! Nice to see THAT part of you, AC! Because of religious dogma there APPEARS to be contradiction ( I'm always looking- and not finding).

    What area(s) do you feel it ambiguos?

    And- it's hard to put faith in HUMANITY- when it can't agree on ANYTHING, ruins the Earth, and is SO selfish & greedy- as a whole... There are wonderful people everywhere- but it looks like they are far out-numbered, to me!

    Maybe I'm getting more Critical than I realise, AC- what great things are you referring to? Are you here in the U.S.?

    Thank you for your kindness- even my WIFE has a hard time dealing with me, sometimes!

    Mad

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Thanks for your reply Mad,

    And especially I appreciate the agape! I want you to understand something about me because I have respect for you. I have sincere questions and doubts about God but I would never want to give the impression of irreverence, if only out of respect for those who do believe. I have prayed to Jehovah on hands and knees, pouring my heart out, looking for answers to certain injustices and inconsistencies I observed as an elder. I honestly feel that I received no answer of any sort. Now I feel a peace of mind. I am responsible for my success and my failure. I don't say this so as to reject God, simply to carry on where I feel I must. If you were to know me in "real" life you would know that I'm a very thankful and grateful person. If there's one thing I hate it's arrogance, so I assume that no one owes me anything. Therefore, I love whatever I get from anyone in the way of respect,dignity,love, etc. I hope to find some answers on the road that is life. I just simply could no longer be satisfied with the explanation of reality as provided by the Governing Body. If God is up there and He loves me, He'll know what to do. If He should decide to vaporize me that's ok too. If He's God He can do as He pleases.

    Love and respect to you Brother Mad Brother,

    Nvr

  • Mad
    Mad

    Anti-Christ lists examples of what he feels are contradictions:

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

    Light comes from MANY more sources than just our tiny sun! God was using a different source.


    GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
    GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.

    No vegetation in the area He was about to form man-he formed a garden with plants that would serve as food.


    GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

    Not said at ALL- just shows he was adding to the animal kingdom after Creating Adam.


    GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

    GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
    GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

    I wish you wouldn't cut & paste all this nonsense; it's just a game from whatever book you copied this from. Genesis 1:26 & 7 was a brief statement to show what Day they were created, the 2nd chapter giving the details.


    GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
    EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
    EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
    LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
    NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
    2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
    EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
    2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
    GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

    Psalm 97:10 sums this up- Love what is Good, HATE what is Bad. God gets very angry at the Wicked- especially when they harm others.


    GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
    JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
    LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
    JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
    1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
    RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.

    Another game: you may be righteous compared to a mass-murderer, but you are not righteous compared to our Maker.


    I'll try to get to these later- but if the above are any examples- they will be as twisted.... Mad

    GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
    GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
    GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.

    GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
    2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."

    GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
    JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
    1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
    JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.

    EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
    DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.

    EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
    MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.

    EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
    1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.

    LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
    MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.

    NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
    JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.

    NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
    DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.

    DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
    MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.

    JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
    JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.

    2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
    1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.

    MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
    LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.

    MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
    LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.

    MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
    MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.

  • Mad
    Mad

    LtCMD wrote: "I cannot prove that god does not exist. But I'm pretty sure you can't prove fairies exist."

    Mad writes: I CAN prove God exists! Interested?

  • Mad
    Mad

    Supposed Bible 'Contradictions' were posted- here are the facts:

    GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness.
    GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.

    GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
    *********************************************************************************************************

    There are MANY sources of light other than our tiny sun! God used light from another source.
    ************************************************************************************************************

    GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created.
    GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.
    *******************************************************************
    The account shows the area where God created Eden was devoid of food- bearing plants
    before the garden was formed. Not the ridiculous claim above.
    ************************************************************************

    GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created.

    GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.
    GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.
    *********************************************************************************************
    The account shows that God CONTINUED to add to the animal kingdom after creating Adam,
    NOT the ridiculous implication above.
    **********************************************************************************************
    GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
    GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.
    **********************************************************************************************
    Chapter one merely gives an overview of the Creative Days, Chapter 2 later gives the details- NOT
    the ridiculous implication above.
    *****************************************************************************************
    GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
    EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
    EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.

    LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.

    NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.

    2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from

    his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
    EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness

    of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
    2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.

    GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
    ******************************************************************************************************
    God IS Love personified- but, as summed up in Psalm 97:10- He loves what is Good & Hates what is bad!
    Especially when He sees the Wicked harming the innocent! His Anger is Righteous!
    **********************************************************************************************************

    GE 7:1 Noah was righteous.
    JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous.
    LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous.
    JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective).
    1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians).
    RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous.
    ***********************************************************************************************
    Men are righteous sometimes- compared to others- but NEVER when compared with Jehovah!
    **********************************************************************************************

    GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born.
    GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time).
    ******************************************
    Lifespans were longer at that time.
    ******************************************
    GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could
    have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years.
    *************************************************
    The account shows Terah died at the age of 205!
    *************************************************

    GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring.
    2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous."
    *****************************************************************************************
    Getting drunk doesn't make you Evil- sometimes the best people have made that mistake.
    His daughters got him drunk, and carried out their desire-not Lot.
    *****************************************************************************************

    GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses.
    JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt).
    1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations.
    JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one.
    ********************************************************************************************
    Occaisionally God has tested his servants (He allowed His Son to be tested by Satan!).
    James is showing that the suffering righteous ones were experiencing at that time didn't come from God,
    and that the danger in temptation was one's own heart. And that He NEVER USES EVIL to test.
    ********************************************************************************************

    EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins.
    DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins.
    ************************************************************************
    Children who carry on the sins of their fathers WILL, the innocent WON'T.
    *************************************************************************

    EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc.
    MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies.
    *******************************************************************************************************
    The Mosaic Law was a harsh law for a harsh people with many wicked tendencies
    that came from the Egyptian culture, and even worse cultures around Egypt. Jesus brought a "New" law!
    **********************************************************************************************************

    EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie.
    1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception.
    *****************************************************************************************
    Yes- He has allowed the wicked to be deceived: today HE allows the churches, doesn't He?
    *****************************************************************************************

    LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest.
    MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest.
    ******************************************************************************************************
    Here is the cheapeast of deception with these so-called contradictions. Christ was using money-lending
    ONLY as an illustration that the "Riches" Christians were given were not to be squandered- but "Invested"
    to build up & encourage others!
    *********************************************************************************************************

    NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness.
    JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness.
    **********************************************************************************************************
    That's a contradiction? Only in this ridiculous charade of so-called contradictions; God certainly had the right
    to punish the Israelites who had broken their own promise to stay away from Vile, Evil deeds. Satan had NO
    such right- or motive!
    ************************************************************************************************************
    NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor.
    DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera.
    ************************************************************************
    Mosera was at the foot of Mt. Hor. Whoever wrote this book was an Idiot!
    ************************************************************************

    DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry.
    MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.
    ***********************************************************************************************************
    Jesus stated that that was allowed in the Mosaic Law because of their hard-heartedness, but the new law of
    love had to be followed now.
    ***********************************************************************************************************

    JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him.
    JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing.
    ****************************************************************************************************
    The King of Moab, Eglon was referred to at 4:21, not Sisera! What an idiot this writer was.
    ***************************************************************************************

    2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census.
    1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter.
    *******************************************************************
    Another deception: I Kings 15:5 stated that with one exception, David had done as God commanded.
    The census was something David had come up with on his own, when he was starting to become arrogant.
    It had nothing to do with any command from God.
    ***********************************************************************************************************

    MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
    LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.
    ******************************************************************************************************************
    This is the only one that appears a genuine contradiction- research shows that Joseph was Heli's son -in-LAW by
    taking Mary as wife; geneology doesn't specifiy between literal sons and son-in-laws.
    ******************************************************************************************************************

    MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the

    murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though

    under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.)
    *****************************************************************************************************************************
    The firstborns were murdered only in the small region of Bethlehem. John and the Apostles grew up in other regions.
    ************************************************************************************************************************
    LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then

    return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.
    **************************************************************************************************************************************
    The confusion here comes from the phony Church Dogma of Jesus being a newborn in a manger when the Wise Men/Astrologers are led
    by the Star (from Satan).

    The account in Matthew has many details showing this was AFTER the account in Luke 2. Jesus is no longer
    referred to as a babe- but as a young child. Herod has all the boys in that region from 2 years old to newborns, just in case. Jesus, Mary and

    their child are living in a house. And there's more, if you want to look into the historical details of the Roman Rulers mentioned.
    The account in Luke is related what happened at his birth- BEFORE Herod, the astrologers, and the slaughter- and Egypt.
    ****************************************************************************************************************************************

    MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism

    onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel.
    MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah.
    **************************************************************************************************************************************
    John needed reassurance; he was about to be beheaded. What a cheesy thing to imply!

    There may be contradictions SOMEWHERE in the Bible- but it sure ain't THESE!

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