There are more cracks we will be discovering in the kingdom of the heaven in the Watchtower and I am going to ask you this: If Christ did return to Kingdom power in 1914, then how come we are not feeling the effects of His rule at this time? Is it reason to believe that Jesus return to earth will be a future event and that it will be very much visible and that we will feel the effect of His return to the earth by crushing all these kingdoms? (Daniel 2:44) The Old Testament and New Testament support each other the visible Return of Christ. Just read the following texts: Zechariah 14:4
4 And his feet will actually stand in that day upon the mountain of the olive trees, which is in front of Jerusalem, on the east; and the mountain of the olive trees must be split at its middle, from the sunrising and to the west. There will be a very great valley; and half of the mountain will actually be moved to the north, and half of it to the south.
Amos 9:8-15
8 Look! The eyes of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah are upon the sinful kingdom, and he will certainly annihilate it from upon the surface of the ground. Nevertheless, I shall not completely annihilate the house of Jacob, is the utterance of Jehovah. 9 For, look! I am commanding, and I will jiggle the house of Israel among all the nations, just as one jiggles the sieve, so that not a pebble falls to the earth. 10 By the sword they will dieall the sinners of my people, those who are saying: The calamity will not come near or reach as far as us.
11 In that day I shall raise up the booth of David that is fallen, and I shall certainly repair their breaches. And its ruins I shall raise up, and I shall certainly build it up as in the days of long ago, 12 to the end that they may take possession of what is left remaining of E´dom, and all the nations upon whom my name has been called, is the utterance of Jehovah, who is doing this.
13 Look! There are days coming, is the utterance of Jehovah, and the plowman will actually overtake the harvester, and the treader of grapes, the carrier of the seed; and the mountains must drip with sweet wine, and the very hills will all find themselves melting. 14 And I will gather back the captive ones of my people Israel, and they will actually build [the] desolated cities and inhabit [them], and plant vineyards and drink the wine of them, and make gardens and eat the fruit of them.
15 And I shall certainly plant them upon their ground, and they will no more be uprooted from their ground that I have given them, Jehovah your God has said.
Ezekiel 37:20-28
20 And the sticks upon which you write must prove to be in your hand before their eyes.
21 And speak to them, This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: Here I am taking the sons of Israel from among the nations to which they have gone, and I will collect them together from round about and bring them onto their soil. 22 And I shall actually make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king is what all of them will come to have as king, and they will no longer continue to be two nations, nor will they be divided any longer into two kingdoms. 23 And they will no longer defile themselves with their dungy idols and with their disgusting things and with all their transgressions; and I shall certainly save them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them, and they must become my people, and I myself shall become their God.
24 And my servant David will be king over them, and one shepherd is what they will all come to have; and in my judicial decisions they will walk, and my statutes they will keep, and they will certainly carry them out. 25 And they will actually dwell upon the land that I gave to my servant, to Jacob, in which YOUR forefathers dwelt, and they will actually dwell upon it, they and their sons and their sons sons to time indefinite, and David my servant will be their chieftain to time indefinite.
26 And I will conclude with them a covenant of peace; an indefinitely lasting covenant is what there will come to be with them. And I will place them and multiply them and place my sanctuary in the midst of them to time indefinite. 27 And my tabernacle will actually prove to be over them, and I shall certainly become their God, and they themselves will become my people. 28 And the nations will have to know that I, Jehovah, am sanctifying Israel when my sanctuary comes to be in the midst of them to time indefinite.
Matthew 24:26-31
26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, Look! He is in the wilderness, do not go out; Look! He is in the inner chambers, do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
Revelation 22:20
20 He that bears witness of these things says, Yes; I am coming quickly.
Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.
The crack on this doctrine on the kingdom of Heaven is getting bigger because of another matter we must deal with: 144,000 spirit-begotten brothers from Jehovahs people will have the privilege to rule with Christ in heaven and that the other sheep will be living on earth in Paradise. Revelation 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed; out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand; 6 out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Naph´tali twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Manas´seh twelve thousand; 7 out of the tribe of Sim´eon twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Is´sachar twelve thousand; 8 out of the tribe of Zeb´ulun twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.
Revelation 14:1-3
1 And I saw, and look! The Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.
3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.
Now we are going to see the problems pose in these passages.
1. Who among Jehovahs Witnesses individually belong to the tribes from nation of Israel? (verses 5-8)
2. Are Jehovahs Witnesses standing on Mount Zion now? (Remember the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is situated in Brooklyn, NY.)
3. Who are virgins among 144,000 Jehovahs Witnesses?
4. Had the anointed brothers lie? (Starting with the false prophecies of 1799, 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1935, 1941, 1957 and 1975; Beth- Sarim, changing the 1914 doctrine, The Malawi persecution/Mexico compromise, the Watchtower association with the United Nations Non-Government Organization (1992-2001), cover-ups of sexual molestation of children, change on the blood issue, etc )
5. Are they blameless? (Ask yourself the issues listed on in question four.)
Are the questions becoming tougher for you to answer from the New World Translation based on the Watchtower history and their stand on doctrine and practices?
Let read Revelation 19:1 and I am going ask additional questions to you, and you are going to need a lot of antacid tablets or Pepto-Bismol for them, and some aspirin too. Revelation 19:1
1 After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They say: praise Jah, YOU peope! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God.
You believe that the great crowd has the earthly hope in Paradise, right?
If that is so, then why does the Greek word, naos (meaning divine habitation, is use in the Kingdom Interlinear in Revelation chapter 19:1 and 7:14-15 instead of the Greek term for the earth, hieron? It is true that the great crowd has an approved position before God, but on What premises? Is because of the fact that everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God and that, because of their faith in Jesus and being saved by grace and declared righteous, they also stand before the Throne and the Lamb of God? (1 John 5:1; Romans 4; Ephesians 2:8-9)
So if you are of the great crowd, then you have to privilege to be citizens of heaven from the Scriptural point. (Philippians 3:20) It is not here on the earth! Just read the indescribable scene John saw (Revelation 4:1-5:14). Though we are seeing this sinful world growing very dark and foreboding but we can look forward to our home with God as we face darker days ahead. And this glimpse of heaven is our hope. Should you find yourself alone and helpless after decision to disassociate yourself or you will be forced out of the organization, Jehovah is still with you and you can dear near to him, like I did in 1994. His love, grace and power are never limited by our personal circumstances. Two principles from this passage of Scripture we can learn as we move toward sanctification:
The 24 elders (represented as possibly Old Testament and New Testament figures of faith) sitting around Jehovahs Throne shows us we will be honored by the God in heaven.
The diversity of the four living beings reflects our uniqueness, with special qualities and characteristic for His Glory. Unlike the Watchtower and the elders in the Kingdom Hall, Jehovah values you because he created us, with diversified gifts and abilities to be used in His service and for His glory. This is encouraging news for you indeed. Let make Jehovah a daily focal point in our lives and offer Him gratitude and praise so that you can be experienced true freedom from the Watchtower theology and hold on your life.
The painful realities inside Jehovahs Witnesses will fade away in light of His love for you and to display His power on your behalf. Jehovah is above The Watchtower, false doctrine, or anything painful experiences you are (or will be) facing. Entrust your life to Him, follow His will in your life and praise Him for what He will do for you in your life.
Holes in the Kingdom
by Dr_Derrick 26 Replies latest jw friends
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Dr_Derrick
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tall penguin
Is this the prodigal son "defd" returning to share his glorious wisdom with us all?
tall penguin -
yucca
Jesus has not returned yet. The watchtower is a false prophet . Every eye will see him when he comes. The Watchtower is Jesus enemy.
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agapa37
Is this the prodigal son "defd" returning to share his glorious wisdom with us all?
Do you miss him/her. He/she musta had a pretty memerable inpact. My kind of person.
tall penguin -
mrsjones5
defd was a jerk. you like jerks huh?
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tall penguin
Agapa, are you yet another incarnation of the wonderful Derrick?
Do I miss him? Well, every board needs a bit of crazy now and then to keep things interesting. ;)
tall penguin -
mrsjones5
Derrick/defd was wonderful in his own mind. He was a wannabe gangbanger who bragged that he gang raped a girl before he became a jw. Then I happen to see a pic of him that he quickly takes down and I knew it was all a lie. *rolls eyes*
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agapa37
If I didn't know better, Mrsjones' reply about this celebraty defd makes it sound as if she had it for him. You know what I mean, like when a school boy has a crush on a little girl in his class and all he can think of doing is pulling her hair! Mrsjones cool it now, it is not healthy for a married women to have such feelings for another man!
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greendawn
The invisible return concept is unbiblical and strange and was in fact invented by the adventists to justify their prophetic failures of the 1870's. The dubs used the same excuse to justify their 1914 failure. Nowhere do we find an invisble return to precede a visible one, after all Jesus has always been invisibly present since his ascension to heaven.
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agapa37
The apostle Paul was the 2nd most zealous advocate of the truth. He was very effective in his teachings because of his ability to teach. One method he used was "reason". It may be good to some reason concerning this subject
Will
Christ return in a manner visible to human eyes?John 14:19: "A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live." (Jesus had promised his apostles that he would come again and take them to heaven to be with him. They could see him because they would be spirit creatures as he is. But the world would not see him again. Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)
Acts 13:34: "He [God] resurrected him [Jesus] from the dead destined no more to return to corruption." (Human bodies are by nature corruptible. That is why 1 Corinthians 15:42, 44 uses the word "corruption" in parallel construction with "physical body." Jesus will never again have such a body.)
John 6:51: "I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world." (Having given it, Jesus does not take it back again. He does not thereby deprive mankind of the benefits of the sacrifice of his perfect human life.)
What is the meaning of Jesus ’coming" in the same manner "as he ascended to heaven?
Acts 1:9-11: "While they [Jesus’ apostles] were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision. And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men in white garments stood alongside them, and they said: ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky will come thus in the same manner as you have beheld him going into the sky.’" (Notice that this says "the same manner," not the same body. What was the "manner" of his ascent? As verse 9 shows, he disappeared from view, his departure being observed only by his disciples. The world in general was not aware of what happened. The same would be true of Christ’s return.)
What
is meant by his‘ coming on the clouds’and‘every eye seeing him’?Rev. 1:7: "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him." (Also Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27)
What
is indicated by"clouds"? Invisibility. When an airplane is in a thick cloud or above the clouds, people on the ground usually cannot see it, although they may hear the roar of the engines. Jehovah told Moses: "I am coming to you in a dark cloud." Moses did not see God, but that cloud indicated Jehovah’s invisible presence. (Ex. 19:9; see also Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 11:25.) If Christ were to appear visibly in the heavens, it is obvious that not "every eye" would see him. If he appeared over Australia, for example, he would not be visible in Europe, Africa, and the Americas, would he?In
what sense will‘every eye see him’? They will discern from events on earth that he is invisibly present. Also referring to sight that is not physical, John 9:41 reports: "Jesus said to [the Pharisees]: ‘If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, "We see." Your sin remains.’" (Compare Romans 1:20.) Following Christ’s return, some persons show faith; they recognize the sign of his presence. Others reject the evidence, but when Christ goes into action as God’s executioner of the wicked, even they will discern from the manifestation of his power that the destruction is not from men but from heaven. They will know what is happening because they were warned in advance. Because of what is overtaking them, they will "beat themselves in grief."Who
are "those who pierced him"? Literally, Roman soldiers did this at the time of Jesus’ execution. But they have long been dead. So this must refer to people who similarly mistreat, or ‘pierce,’ Christ’s true followers during "the last days."—Matt. 25:40, 45.Can it really be said that a person has‘ come’ or that he is‘ present’ if he is not visible?
The apostle Paul spoke of his being "absent in body but present in spirit" with the congregation in Corinth.—1 Cor. 5:3.
Jehovah spoke of his ‘going down’ to confuse the language of the builders of the tower of Babel. (Gen. 11:7) He also said that he would "go down" to deliver Israel from bondage to Egypt. And God assured Moses, "My own person will go along" to lead Israel to the Promised Land. (Ex. 3:8; 33:14) But no human ever saw God.—Ex. 33:20; John 1:18.
good food for though. Right out of the reasonong book.