Watchtower allows Banned Red Blood Cell Transfers in Liver Transplants?

by hawkaw 22 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  chasson

  Thanks for this information Hawkaw, so, the Watchtower has authorized whole blood transfusion in certain context, even homologous blood transfusion as shown here and not only autologous one.

  1/ In some blood test (Watchtower 2000 and KM November 2006): If the text of 2000 is imprecise, the text of the KM of November 2006 state clearly that the blood is stored out of the patient body for a certain duration.

  2/ In acute normovolemic hemodilution (ANH) since the year 2005, as state here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/128917/1.ashx because the JW patient is no longer obliged to have a closed circuit to store his blood outside his body as state before in a 1989 watchtower.

  And now 3/ in transplantation surgery since 1980...

  So their stand on blood is totally illogical.

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  hawkaw

  BTTT.

  We should post that November 2006 Kingdom Ministry.
• 

  hawkaw

  Okay I am going to cross-link the OKM November 2006 publication with this thread too as both are important.

  Page 6 of the November 2006 Our Kingdom Ministry stated "Some blood is withdrawn, mixed with medicine, and returned to the patient. The length of time one's blood is outside the body may vary."

  As stated by Charles, I don't think most JWs have thought about the implications of allowing this as it contradicts earlier views that blood leaving the body had to remain connected somehow.
  
  The Our Kingdom Ministry indicates autologous platelet gel is also permitted. As stated by another poster this is where one's own blood is "withdrawn and concentrated into a solution rich in platelets and white cells. This solution is applied on surgical sites or wounds" to seal wounds or reduce bleeding.
  
  Scan available at: http://www.aggelia.be/km_nov2006.pdf Over the past years there is a changed perception of what it means to "store blood". In the 1960s and 1970s no blood was allowed to be out of the body. In late 1980s, the leadership said that anything other than a closed circuit is the same as to store blood. Then by 2000 and now today the leadership has changed perception. When own's own blood is stored and/or separated from the body in an ongoing procedure it is now approved by the leadership and a matter of conscience. Only if blood is stored awaiting the procedure is it not approved. I double dare you to find that logic in the Bible and who is defining the word "stored" out of the body?
• 

  chasson

  I think that the change of view concerning ANH is explain in a very sublte way on the wiki of NoBlood.org (strange name when we consider the reality !!!)

  Take a look at http://www.noblood.org/wiki/Acute_Normovolemic_Hemodilution

  Explaining the current procedure of ANH it is said:

  " Step 5 Once a whole blood bag is full, it must be disconnected, the tubing sealed, the bag labeled and kept in a safe location in the OR. (Figure 6) The blood bags must remain under the purview of the anesthesiologist at all times, ensuring that administrative error does not occur. This blood is typically stored at room temperature (20 degrees C) for up to 6 hours. After 6 hours, this blood product should be refrigerated at zero degrees C, in accord with American Association of Blood Banks (AABB) guidelines. The bags should be intermittently agitated to ensure that sludging or clumping of red blood cells or platelets does not occur."

  After that he explain the now old view of JW concerning ANH:

  "When perforning ANH for patients with religious-based objections to allogeneic blood, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, ANH can be performed with special modifications. The whole blood collection circuit and fluid administration system have to remain continuous with the patient's intravascular compartment."

  But after the explaination of the concept of 1989, it is added the new concept:

  "It should also be noted that a closed circuit system may not be absolutely required in all situations. During ANH some Jehovah's Witnesses might allow the blood to be withdrawn and held close by for reinfusion toward the end of the procedure. This is considered a matter of personal choice or conscience."

  So return now to Step 5 !!! it is so a real storage of few unit of whole blood even after 6 hours, the "transfusion" here is called "reinfusion" of whole blood. Technically it is true, but in the view of the theology of JW before 2005 or perhaps 2000, it should be called a blood transfusion !!!

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  chasson

  The site "No Blood" is a must:

  Take a look at this FAQ, it explain why JW patient refuse autologous transfusion:

  "Why do some patients refuse Autologus Predonation?

  1. Witnesses consider other Biblical statements (eg, Leviticus 17:13; Deuteronomy 12:15, 16; 15:23) as ruling out preoperative collection and storage of autologous blood (presurgical autologous blood donation or preoperative autologous blood deposit PAD) for later transfusion."

  The word important here is preoperative, because it is the only theological explanation that the site can give.

  In the end of the page we have a confirmation here:

  "

  1. Why do some patients that refuse blood transfusions for religious reasons accept the use of blood salvage even if it does not involve a continuous circuit?
  2. IOBS is considered part of the current surgical procedure "

  Waouh, what a powerful theological reason...

  ANH is too an autologus predonation before the surgery, and the blood of the two procedure will be reinfuse in the same way, but ANH take place during the surgical procedure. It is just a question of place (ANH= in the block operative), and time (ANH= during or just before the surgery), but why not extent this concept unfound in the Bible, could the "surgical procedure" be start when the JW patient enter the hospital, and accept the autologus predonation one or two days before the main surgery ??

  Well i don't think that a lot of JW could understand the difference between the two procedure, and even if they have understand, how could they explain it with the Bible ?

  If you take a look at the upper part of the page, you can see a couple of JW very puzzled, i think i will be in the same mood if i should be at their place !!!

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  chasson

  Hawkaw, our post has collapsed, as a conclusion, we must find why they have changed again their policy in 2000. I think that perhaps the change is linked with the procedure. We need blood during long surgical procedure, and if after 6 hours the blood must be freeze, with a closed circuit, there were no benefitial cost to use this kind of technics, because the blood collected must be dropped.

  Bye

  Charles
• 

  hawkaw

  But after the explaination of the concept of 1989, it is added the new concept:

  "It should also be noted that a closed circuit system may not be absolutely required in all situations. During ANH some Jehovah's Witnesses might allow the blood to be withdrawn and held close by for reinfusion toward the end of the procedure. This is considered a matter of personal choice or conscience."

  So just what does abstain from blood mean? Where in the Bible does it say you can have a transfusion as long as it is part of the procedure even if the blood is stored nearby? Where in the Bible does it say when the procedure starts and when it ends?

  hawk
• 

  hawkaw

  In reality, this science using hemodilution is not bloodless surgery but "extra-corporeal circulation (ECC)" - outside the body blood circulation.
• 

  hawkaw

  BTTT
• 

  johnny cip

  there is so much info here wow! i just hope some fine apostate is getting all this info to the canadian courts. and that's the reason the court delayed the court date. i get the feeling the wts is going to get buried this time.